159. Healing the Emotionally Unavailable Man

WEBVTT

00:00.611 --> 00:03.872
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Bridging Connections, formerly known as men this way.

00:04.172 --> 00:06.213
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Brian, with a wide reaves.

00:06.593 --> 00:07.173
[SPEAKER_01]: Former U.S.

00:07.233 --> 00:11.255
[SPEAKER_01]: Air Force Captain turned author and professional coach to men, women, and couples.

00:11.955 --> 00:16.216
[SPEAKER_01]: Alongside me as co-host, my lifelong friend of over forty years, to air it.

00:16.736 --> 00:26.260
[SPEAKER_01]: Here we have the raw, real conversations we need to be having about the topics that matter most, relationships, purpose, health, spirituality, and more.

00:26.720 --> 00:28.320
[SPEAKER_01]: Please subscribe to stay connected.

00:28.701 --> 00:29.441
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's dive.

00:35.047 --> 00:45.129
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello again, I am still on summer vacation with my wife and I up on the Scottish Highlands, so we're digging into the archives for another episode.

00:45.509 --> 00:49.650
[SPEAKER_01]: Today, back on this podcast was still called men this way.

00:50.350 --> 00:57.411
[SPEAKER_01]: To bring you another epic conversation with a profound human being, the renowned relationship therapist and coach Jason Gettis.

00:58.231 --> 01:03.952
[SPEAKER_01]: In this timeless conversation, Jason and I explore emotional unavailability in men.

01:04.652 --> 01:11.055
[SPEAKER_01]: and practices to be more self-aware so we can be more emotionally present in our relationships and in our lives.

01:11.976 --> 01:24.142
[SPEAKER_01]: And one last thing, if you're a man and this episode stirs something in you, you should know applications for elevate to twenty twenty six, my year-long coaching adventure for men committed to elevating their lives and relationships.

01:24.643 --> 01:25.183
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not how open.

01:26.008 --> 01:31.469
[SPEAKER_01]: Only ten men are invited each year on this transformational deep dive experience with me and say it out.

01:31.629 --> 01:33.870
[SPEAKER_01]: One man has already claimed his spot.

01:34.870 --> 01:37.171
[SPEAKER_01]: This is our sixth year offering this.

01:37.691 --> 01:40.431
[SPEAKER_01]: And look, maybe you've been thinking about this for a few years.

01:41.551 --> 01:49.113
[SPEAKER_01]: These last couple of years, there's always been a man who said, I've been looking at this for a couple of years and I've been nervous to pull the trigger and to jump into this, but now's the time.

01:49.813 --> 01:52.714
[SPEAKER_01]: And he inevitably always wishes he had done it sooner.

01:53.660 --> 01:57.841
[SPEAKER_01]: Regardless, maybe that's you or maybe you're hearing about this for the first time.

01:58.301 --> 02:02.462
[SPEAKER_01]: Regardless, I challenge you to stop thinking about it and just take action.

02:03.022 --> 02:04.062
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to Brian.

02:04.462 --> 02:06.603
[SPEAKER_01]: Reaves.com slash elevate.

02:06.623 --> 02:13.164
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Brian with a Y. Reaves.com slash elevate to learn more about this experience and to apply.

02:13.204 --> 02:18.145
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see past men's experiences from the past elevate years that we've done.

02:18.865 --> 02:23.588
[SPEAKER_01]: learn more about what other men have experienced in this program and this journey.

02:24.489 --> 02:31.334
[SPEAKER_01]: But I challenge you to take action, make twenty twenty six a year of radical growth.

02:32.014 --> 02:34.516
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to brionreves.com forward slash elevate.

02:34.556 --> 02:37.818
[SPEAKER_01]: Brian with a Y Reeves dot com forward slash elevate.

02:38.339 --> 02:41.421
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's get into my conversation with Jason, get us.

02:46.327 --> 02:48.028
[SPEAKER_01]: Jason Gaddis, welcome.

02:48.268 --> 02:50.290
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Brian Reeves, stoked to be here.

02:50.510 --> 02:54.373
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you exist very large in the relationship space.

02:55.093 --> 03:00.037
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my own fiance, Sylvie, Kucasian, a marriage and family therapist or self.

03:00.617 --> 03:02.098
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm early in our relationship, man.

03:02.118 --> 03:07.082
[SPEAKER_01]: She would always, she would talk about you and your work and your podcast and a smart couple podcast.

03:07.162 --> 03:11.465
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was always glowing about how you were so practical.

03:12.025 --> 03:15.990
[SPEAKER_01]: Like everything your tips were so like just so actionable.

03:17.131 --> 03:28.584
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember when you and I did the podcast, you had me on your podcast and you came back to me and you're like, bro, look, that was great conversation, but I don't feel like we had any actionable stuff in there.

03:30.246 --> 03:31.848
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I really appreciated that.

03:31.968 --> 03:36.893
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're reaching back out and saying let's do this again to really give people something that they can work with.

03:36.933 --> 03:45.462
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just want to acknowledge you Jason, your your name and your work, man, you really are serving a lot of people, including my own fiance and our relationship.

03:45.542 --> 03:47.404
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for walking this path.

03:47.937 --> 03:48.937
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man, you got it.

03:49.117 --> 03:49.458
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

03:50.178 --> 04:03.783
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start with a question that I'd love to ask all my guests to begin with and that is tell us about a significant event or experience in your early life that played a fundamental role in shaping you as a man.

04:04.603 --> 04:06.284
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man, there's there's many but

04:07.732 --> 04:11.936
[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking about this ahead of time because of your great questions to prompt this interview.

04:11.956 --> 04:21.984
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say one of the biggest was a fight I got in sixth grade and I was a pretty popular kid in elementary school.

04:22.004 --> 04:23.826
[SPEAKER_00]: I was good at sports.

04:23.846 --> 04:27.729
[SPEAKER_00]: I played a lot of the sports games and the activities at school.

04:28.890 --> 04:33.613
[SPEAKER_00]: And my dad had conditioned me to not cry on the playground or not cry when you get hurt.

04:33.733 --> 04:35.094
[SPEAKER_00]: So I fit in.

04:35.334 --> 04:35.494
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

04:35.974 --> 04:36.615
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

04:36.635 --> 04:42.859
[SPEAKER_00]: But this one time, this could challenge me to a fight out for no apparent reason in sixth grade because I was a kickingist chair or something.

04:43.852 --> 04:48.975
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, you want to fight, and I was like, sure, against everything in me, which was actually sensitive.

04:48.995 --> 04:51.676
[SPEAKER_00]: I was actually a sensitive kid, but I had kind of toughened up over that.

04:51.716 --> 04:56.639
[SPEAKER_00]: But behind my sensitive knee, or behind my toughness was this really sensitive empathic boy.

04:56.659 --> 04:58.740
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, yes, even though I meant no.

04:59.060 --> 04:59.281
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

04:59.681 --> 05:04.824
[SPEAKER_00]: And we go out to the playground after school, and I had about ten friends with me, and he had one friend.

05:05.184 --> 05:07.085
[SPEAKER_00]: He was kind of one of the least popular kids.

05:08.377 --> 05:12.198
[SPEAKER_00]: And we start fighting, and I'll never forget my dad's advice.

05:12.258 --> 05:14.178
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, if you ever get in a fight, throw the first punch.

05:15.079 --> 05:17.639
[SPEAKER_00]: So I threw the first punch, but I threw the first slap.

05:18.820 --> 05:21.040
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't punch him, because I didn't, I had to punch someone.

05:21.580 --> 05:22.320
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.

05:22.701 --> 05:26.301
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he punched me back with a fist, and I had a big welcome next day.

05:26.321 --> 05:28.062
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, he knew that I threw a punch.

05:28.482 --> 05:29.703
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I got punched hard.

05:30.104 --> 05:32.245
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we were wrestling on the ground and the principle came out.

05:32.986 --> 05:43.476
[SPEAKER_00]: And basically it was so scary and so uncomfortable with all these other boys cheering us on yelling on us that when the principle came out, everybody's dispersed, you know, everybody fled the scene.

05:44.477 --> 05:46.398
[SPEAKER_00]: And I ran home and I ran home crying.

05:47.398 --> 05:51.160
[SPEAKER_00]: And around home to my family, my dad worked from seven to seven pms.

05:51.240 --> 05:59.384
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't see him tell dinner, but my mom, I remember she covered me or what, but when my dad got home, his first question was, did you throw the first punch?

06:00.544 --> 06:06.887
[SPEAKER_00]: And he didn't care about how scary it was or brutal it was for me or he just was like, well, did you win?

06:06.927 --> 06:07.748
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you throw the first punch?

06:09.144 --> 06:13.647
[SPEAKER_00]: And then here's the shitty part is a few days later I asked a friend who won the fight.

06:14.107 --> 06:16.168
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, I think it was a tie.

06:17.289 --> 06:23.053
[SPEAKER_00]: And my interpretation of that was I must have lost because my own friend, what a set of course you want to.

06:23.093 --> 06:24.414
[SPEAKER_00]: You kicked his ass, you know, or whatever.

06:25.454 --> 06:29.877
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I went to, this was at the end of sixth grade, which was the end of elementary school for me.

06:30.097 --> 06:33.179
[SPEAKER_00]: I went into middle school with no friends.

06:34.800 --> 06:37.121
[SPEAKER_00]: None of those kids that were my friends in sixth grade would talk to me.

06:38.197 --> 06:42.302
[SPEAKER_00]: When they all went and joined the football team and I was my mom wouldn't let me play football.

06:43.143 --> 06:44.945
[SPEAKER_00]: And basically I just had no friends.

06:45.186 --> 06:49.791
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that event was enormous for me because it started to shape.

06:50.997 --> 07:01.681
[SPEAKER_00]: how I would socialize with people and the fact that I revealed my vulnerability in front of all these kids and I cried on the playground essentially was really shameful.

07:01.701 --> 07:03.402
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not supposed to do that as a boy, right?

07:03.982 --> 07:09.164
[SPEAKER_00]: And to the point where I lost friends because I showed that level of vulnerability, it's pretty intense.

07:09.565 --> 07:09.845
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

07:10.405 --> 07:14.867
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I think I'm hearing is that really shaped a deep wound in you as a man.

07:15.767 --> 07:16.167
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

07:16.407 --> 07:16.927
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

07:17.127 --> 07:17.668
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.

07:17.868 --> 07:23.209
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, OK, I'm never fucking crying again in front of people.

07:23.509 --> 07:26.530
[SPEAKER_00]: And I got bullied a bit in elementary or excuse me, middle school.

07:27.130 --> 07:30.351
[SPEAKER_00]: And all the times I got bullied, I didn't cry.

07:31.311 --> 07:35.272
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just kind of sucked it up and just sort of took it and moved on.

07:36.653 --> 07:38.613
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't fight back because that wasn't my nature.

07:39.193 --> 07:41.554
[SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't cry and have a meltdown either.

07:41.934 --> 07:42.174
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

07:43.594 --> 07:44.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I think, you know,

07:46.245 --> 07:59.199
[SPEAKER_01]: I got into some fights as a kid and I always got my ass kicked and I actually attribute that to that was one of the best things that happened to me continually getting my ass kicked because it taught me okay fighting ain't gonna work for me.

07:59.619 --> 08:00.580
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to find another way.

08:01.501 --> 08:24.147
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think what you're describing mean every man has a story, has an experience whether it was at the hands of their father or other boys or other girls perhaps or where they were shamed for their vulnerability ostracized for crying, for being emotional, for or just new instinctively, don't ever go there.

08:24.167 --> 08:28.728
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not instinctively, but because that's what the message was all around.

08:29.803 --> 08:30.867
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm curious.

08:32.069 --> 08:41.231
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know this is where I think we're very, very similar and probably, I mean, if every man is honest to about it, even I've fucked up into my relationships a lot in our past.

08:41.371 --> 08:46.492
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we do the work that we do because of the mistakes that we've made and the bottoms that we've hidden.

08:46.992 --> 08:59.975
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious what you just described that really shutting down a vulnerability and emotionality, draw a link between that experience as a kid and your intimate relationship experiences as an adult.

09:00.324 --> 09:05.484
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I that was just one of many plates of armor that I put up around my heart.

09:07.140 --> 09:10.983
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just was so committed to not getting hurt.

09:11.484 --> 09:17.769
[SPEAKER_00]: And because I got seen as a kid for my sensitivity and vulnerability and it was bad.

09:18.830 --> 09:19.370
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I learned.

09:19.390 --> 09:21.892
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, shit, I'm not going to bring this part of myself out.

09:21.952 --> 09:27.037
[SPEAKER_00]: So those were the causes and conditions that led me to becoming emotionally unavailable, man.

09:27.817 --> 09:28.878
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, enough rejections.

09:29.259 --> 09:30.780
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, every girl I liked didn't like me back.

09:32.080 --> 09:36.962
[SPEAKER_00]: I lost my virginity and the woman disappeared the next morning and, you know, I felt rejected many times.

09:36.982 --> 09:43.584
[SPEAKER_00]: So by the time I got into relationships in my late teens early twenties, I was a guarded motherfucker.

09:44.644 --> 09:49.166
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but I had the sophistication socially to get you to like me, right?

09:49.906 --> 09:53.647
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I learned like you like, okay, I'm gonna use other tools, right?

09:53.707 --> 09:58.489
[SPEAKER_00]: If I can't, if I'm not a fighter, I'm gonna use other tools to get acceptance from people.

09:58.729 --> 10:00.770
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I got good at getting people to like me.

10:01.519 --> 10:03.301
[SPEAKER_00]: while hiding behind a big wall.

10:05.082 --> 10:09.566
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I heard recently, I think I saw you shared about this that you're actually teaching it.

10:09.626 --> 10:13.530
[SPEAKER_01]: You're now teaching a relationship courses in is it high school?

10:14.166 --> 10:23.614
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we're in four pilot schools right now, just trying to see if kids want a relationship class or a second relationship class.

10:24.034 --> 10:25.175
[SPEAKER_00]: What ages are you working with?

10:25.696 --> 10:26.576
[SPEAKER_00]: Ten through twelve.

10:26.656 --> 10:29.519
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, fourteen to eighteen year olds.

10:29.939 --> 10:31.120
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fascinated by that.

10:31.240 --> 10:32.761
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've reflected on that.

10:32.821 --> 10:37.805
[SPEAKER_01]: I've spoken about some people to this because, you know, I'm sure you've gotten this feedback lots of times and I've certainly have

10:38.486 --> 10:39.086
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought about it.

10:39.126 --> 10:40.588
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't they teach this in schools?

10:40.608 --> 10:44.310
[SPEAKER_01]: This we should learn I needed this way more than I needed fucking trigonometry.

10:44.330 --> 10:50.855
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but at the same time, I've also reflected that well, could I really have taken this in at sixteen?

10:51.215 --> 10:52.777
[SPEAKER_01]: Could I really have benefited from this?

10:52.837 --> 10:54.077
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm watching my parents.

10:55.023 --> 10:56.084
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the model I have.

10:56.924 --> 11:00.847
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone coming in and teaching me for an hour a day, is it really going to have any impact?

11:01.347 --> 11:01.887
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious.

11:02.928 --> 11:04.729
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your experience so far?

11:05.429 --> 11:09.052
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you knowing what kids are going through?

11:09.152 --> 11:12.194
[SPEAKER_01]: And because these teenage boys, especially boys,

11:12.954 --> 11:17.557
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, their language changes around the time they've become thirteen fourteen.

11:17.597 --> 11:21.419
[SPEAKER_01]: They stop talking about their even their friends in affection at terms.

11:21.439 --> 11:22.279
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

11:22.419 --> 11:23.740
[SPEAKER_01]: What challenges are you having?

11:23.760 --> 11:25.861
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you what are you enjoying about that experience?

11:25.881 --> 11:28.403
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how are you how are you building that bridge for kids?

11:29.091 --> 11:30.992
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, again, it's a big experiment.

11:31.012 --> 11:31.553
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're learning.

11:32.593 --> 11:40.479
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what we're learning is that we want to reach the teachers and the principals so that the culture of the school or the classroom changes.

11:41.459 --> 11:54.728
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that even if a kid is shut down emotionally or defended or whatever, the teacher's not, and the child or the young adolescent has a transmission of someone who has tools that makes sense.

11:54.888 --> 11:55.709
[SPEAKER_00]: And is available.

11:56.369 --> 11:58.051
[SPEAKER_00]: So that if the opportunity does arise,

11:58.891 --> 12:00.332
[SPEAKER_00]: And they feel really impacted.

12:00.352 --> 12:01.812
[SPEAKER_00]: This teacher becomes a mentor to them.

12:01.872 --> 12:04.113
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, wow, this teacher is like amazing.

12:04.133 --> 12:05.414
[SPEAKER_00]: They can validate my experience.

12:05.434 --> 12:06.715
[SPEAKER_00]: They can see me for who I am.

12:06.755 --> 12:07.475
[SPEAKER_00]: They accept me.

12:08.355 --> 12:12.497
[SPEAKER_00]: They can work out conflict with kids in class with this classroom feels safe, holy shit.

12:13.077 --> 12:16.499
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that goes in, even to the most offended kids.

12:16.659 --> 12:16.979
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

12:17.399 --> 12:18.200
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think reaching

12:19.000 --> 12:21.861
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we just my wife and I just taught a class at a private school in granted.

12:21.901 --> 12:34.206
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a private school mostly pretty white privileged kids, but still, you know, a decent representation of that population and the boys are totally defended, you know, at least that was my experience.

12:34.286 --> 12:34.486
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

12:35.166 --> 12:37.167
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet you could see in their eyes,

12:38.267 --> 12:43.011
[SPEAKER_00]: behind the wall that they're like a sweet, amazing boy, you know, behind the armor.

12:43.091 --> 12:50.317
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I don't know, but our aim is definitely to see if we can can help at a younger age, you know, eventually early ages too.

12:51.234 --> 13:10.542
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very revelatory what you just said to really talking to the environment that these kids are in and the holders of the environment, the teachers, the principals, how the lunch staff, you know, the people that these children are interacting with, and they're not children really, I mean at that age, they're men, at least physically.

13:11.063 --> 13:13.064
[SPEAKER_01]: Physically, yes, that gets right.

13:14.245 --> 13:19.249
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, given your journey, you've talked about emotional unavailability and the shutting down.

13:19.850 --> 13:31.981
[SPEAKER_01]: So men are listening, women are listening to, but specifically speaking to men as a man, what do you think then is one of the greatest gifts that we can offer.

13:32.841 --> 13:39.903
[SPEAKER_01]: as, you know, holders of other people's experience be it our partner or our child or maybe our nephew.

13:39.943 --> 13:51.286
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't have children, but I have a nephew who's twenty-one years old and I love this kid and, you know, he's growing up with the same kind of lack of that kind of container that I grew up with and you grew up with.

13:51.346 --> 13:54.527
[SPEAKER_01]: So, what do you think is the greatest gift that we can give?

13:54.567 --> 13:57.747
[SPEAKER_01]: We can offer the people around us in this regard.

13:58.247 --> 13:59.608
[SPEAKER_00]: You mean as men, as men?

14:00.448 --> 14:13.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, to be emotionally present, I think, is one of the greatest gifts because there's plenty of models out there for a man's man or, you know, a macho dude or even nice guys now.

14:13.580 --> 14:21.687
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's actually kind of a smorgas board, but it's still by and by and large as dominant by men or tough and men are strong and strong equals.

14:21.967 --> 14:23.629
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how you have power over people.

14:23.689 --> 14:26.672
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you compete against everybody to win and

14:27.112 --> 14:29.714
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that just that kind of patriarchal messages.

14:29.854 --> 14:33.896
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, outcome, no pain, no gain, outcome of feelings on that.

14:34.276 --> 14:40.220
[SPEAKER_00]: And that has a place in certain contexts like sports or, you know, certain business environments, maybe.

14:40.240 --> 14:40.880
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

14:40.920 --> 14:41.300
[SPEAKER_00]: But maybe.

14:41.921 --> 14:48.144
[SPEAKER_00]: We can just offer our hearts like just being in a emotionally present available guy is huge.

14:48.185 --> 14:53.388
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's why my son is growing up as a emotionally available boy.

14:54.168 --> 14:56.349
[SPEAKER_00]: despite his culture's conditionings.

14:56.929 --> 15:07.335
[SPEAKER_00]: Every day I have a chance to infuse him with being really balanced, you know, that he can be emotionally present and he can go run and throw sticks and rocks with the boys.

15:07.455 --> 15:08.115
[SPEAKER_00]: He can do both.

15:08.896 --> 15:12.818
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's partly his nature, but I'm giving him permission to be that way.

15:12.838 --> 15:14.659
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the way I am.

15:14.679 --> 15:17.960
[SPEAKER_00]: And what does that look like when you say giving him permission?

15:18.000 --> 15:18.981
[SPEAKER_01]: What does it actually look like?

15:19.677 --> 15:21.499
[SPEAKER_00]: So it might mean that I cry in front of him.

15:21.519 --> 15:30.667
[SPEAKER_00]: It might mean that I'm fighting with my partner in front of him and arguing and working on an agreement, a disagreement with her in front of him.

15:30.747 --> 15:35.431
[SPEAKER_00]: So he understands that I respect my wife and I respect myself.

15:36.420 --> 15:38.683
[SPEAKER_00]: I can listen to her until she feels understood.

15:38.703 --> 15:47.092
[SPEAKER_00]: I can feel frustrated about a relational dynamic and come back and take responsibility for my part and he watches all this go down.

15:47.472 --> 15:48.173
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, you know.

15:48.874 --> 15:54.080
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I can wrestle with him on the bed and be kind of intense and aggressive.

15:54.710 --> 16:00.636
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and how about the role of discipline, like what role does that play as a father?

16:00.656 --> 16:10.646
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, even in your own life being disciplined, because there's I think that our kind of a fundamental challenge we all wrestle with is, I mean, there's a lot of ways you could frame it, but it's

16:11.507 --> 16:13.768
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, take the movie's mission impossible.

16:14.248 --> 16:20.651
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw this really in just ridiculous contrast in that movie, you know, Tom Cruise, his character.

16:20.711 --> 16:23.112
[SPEAKER_01]: He has to choose this is how they frame it.

16:23.472 --> 16:25.953
[SPEAKER_01]: He has to choose between having a wife and saving the world.

16:27.579 --> 16:28.400
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't have both.

16:29.300 --> 16:32.944
[SPEAKER_01]: He foregoes being married to the woman that he loves more than anything.

16:33.324 --> 16:35.846
[SPEAKER_01]: He foregoes that experience because he has to keep saving the world.

16:36.547 --> 16:38.328
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a fundamental tension.

16:38.388 --> 16:43.412
[SPEAKER_01]: Even that's a huge example, but I think all of us men tend to live with that.

16:44.413 --> 16:46.074
[SPEAKER_01]: There's an outcome that I need to have.

16:46.994 --> 16:50.156
[SPEAKER_01]: But there are feelings that are being asked to be considered.

16:50.296 --> 16:53.197
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, I guess there's a lot of ways I could ask that question.

16:53.237 --> 16:56.098
[SPEAKER_01]: But here's what I'll, here's the way I'll frame it for you.

16:56.238 --> 17:02.181
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you navigate that tension between an outcome you want, right?

17:02.321 --> 17:06.523
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether that's, you got work to do or you're driving and we got to get somewhere.

17:07.895 --> 17:16.338
[SPEAKER_01]: and being fully present with your loved ones, your wife, your kids, when emotions arise, when feel like, how do you navigate that tension?

17:17.018 --> 17:18.358
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, it's tricky, man.

17:18.859 --> 17:24.100
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is part of the beauty of family, and being a mission-based man.

17:24.120 --> 17:26.301
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a mission-based business.

17:26.381 --> 17:28.162
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm completely on my mission.

17:28.202 --> 17:32.163
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty ferocious about it, and I'm a committed husband and dad.

17:33.277 --> 17:40.779
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that what I'm learning is, you know, the way that mission impossible frame that was was either or and I just don't think that's the case.

17:41.279 --> 17:54.102
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I have the privilege and luxury to have both granted you could make an argument that I'll be less effective at both if I'm trying to do both versus if I chose one or the other and just went all in.

17:55.363 --> 18:01.224
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm doing both and if my wife didn't feel appreciated and considered

18:02.656 --> 18:11.089
[SPEAKER_00]: because of my lack of presence and my working too much and just being checked out all the time on my phone or whatever, she'd leave me.

18:11.710 --> 18:16.818
[SPEAKER_00]: She's the kind of woman that would that would not work for her over time and I would be alone.

18:17.526 --> 18:17.726
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

18:17.986 --> 18:24.132
[SPEAKER_00]: So I behave in a way, genuinely, and demonstrate my care for her and my kids when I'm off.

18:24.432 --> 18:26.534
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I'm done with work for the day, I'm done.

18:27.134 --> 18:32.379
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm present with the family during dinner and clean up and bedtime rituals and whatever.

18:32.979 --> 18:35.842
[SPEAKER_00]: And then other nights, sometimes it's like, hey, I got stressed out.

18:35.862 --> 18:36.462
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm freaking out.

18:36.803 --> 18:38.884
[SPEAKER_00]: Honey is a cool, you know, like, family time.

18:38.924 --> 18:42.547
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to do this thing and we have agreements around that and I go work.

18:43.348 --> 18:44.829
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we can same thing, you know.

18:46.050 --> 18:50.134
[SPEAKER_00]: So my kids, I don't think, well, interview them in ten, fifteen years and find out.

18:50.995 --> 18:54.138
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think they're growing up with the experience of my dad was never around.

18:54.158 --> 18:54.898
[SPEAKER_00]: He was working all the time.

18:55.179 --> 18:55.479
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

18:56.099 --> 18:57.160
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm there.

18:57.601 --> 18:59.402
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when I'm there, I'm like there, and I work from home.

18:59.442 --> 19:04.187
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just go upstairs and just them at lunch and play with them and then I'm back down and I can't have working.

19:05.093 --> 19:05.293
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

19:05.513 --> 19:11.059
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have a pretty sweet setup and I'm here to tell men that you can do both, but it's a lot.

19:11.499 --> 19:20.668
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, my social life suffers Brian, like there's other parts of my life that I don't attend to and I don't, I'm okay with that because it's really about family and work for me.

19:20.973 --> 19:25.534
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, you just said a number of interesting things and one I want to come back to.

19:26.215 --> 19:39.699
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I heard and what I've also realized in my own relationship with my partner is it's really important that I be clear around my boundaries, my containers, like, okay, I'm going to be working until five p.m.

19:39.959 --> 19:41.439
[SPEAKER_01]: or I'm going to be working until six p.m.

19:41.459 --> 19:44.560
[SPEAKER_01]: and then at six, I'm done and we're going to go do something else.

19:44.600 --> 19:46.301
[SPEAKER_01]: You and I, that's then our time together.

19:46.341 --> 19:49.542
[SPEAKER_01]: And because I work at home, she works at home, also actually

19:50.633 --> 19:55.878
[SPEAKER_01]: When those boundaries are sloppy, it doesn't feel good to either of us.

19:56.498 --> 20:01.663
[SPEAKER_01]: I start to get, I feel resentful that she feels like she's encroaching on my work stuff.

20:03.080 --> 20:10.525
[SPEAKER_01]: And she tends to get resentful that, you know, I may not be fully present when we're supposed to be connecting.

20:10.645 --> 20:11.265
[SPEAKER_01]: And vice versa.

20:11.325 --> 20:15.928
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, sometimes, you know, same, she'll she'll be doing her Instagram, her social media.

20:15.948 --> 20:17.249
[SPEAKER_01]: So a huge part of her business.

20:17.329 --> 20:20.511
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we don't have those clear containers, I feel resentful.

20:20.771 --> 20:21.872
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, what are we doing here?

20:21.932 --> 20:24.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Are we spending time together or are we working?

20:24.853 --> 20:25.354
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?

20:25.854 --> 20:26.054
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

20:26.494 --> 20:26.635
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

20:26.955 --> 20:28.796
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think you just said something really interesting.

20:28.836 --> 20:31.658
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to just really emphasize that for for the men listening that that

20:32.658 --> 20:37.520
[SPEAKER_01]: because you're right, we have our work to do, especially when we really care about it.

20:38.541 --> 20:50.025
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really important that we communicate to our families, our loved ones, our lover, our wife, our whoever that are into the partner, this is the time within which I want to be focused.

20:50.946 --> 20:52.026
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's okay.

20:52.066 --> 20:55.808
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, they'll respect us even more when we're able to do that.

20:56.212 --> 21:00.893
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when I say I'm going to be there and I'm not because my mind is on work, it shows.

21:01.133 --> 21:03.333
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the vibe of the whole family's off.

21:04.093 --> 21:04.373
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

21:05.074 --> 21:05.494
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

21:05.794 --> 21:08.174
[SPEAKER_01]: So good emphasis for the men.

21:08.194 --> 21:09.774
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

21:09.794 --> 21:23.297
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jason, what would you then say is I know there's a lot of things you could say, but what would you say if you're going to give one insight to the men around creating a truly fulfilling intimate relationship?

21:23.937 --> 21:24.657
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you offer?

21:28.500 --> 21:31.707
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say it's all about security.

21:33.450 --> 21:33.691
[SPEAKER_01]: Also.

21:34.356 --> 21:36.397
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I see a partnership like a home.

21:37.357 --> 21:41.418
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you come home, you don't want your house to feel fucked up, right?

21:41.918 --> 21:42.318
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

21:42.579 --> 21:43.259
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to feel good.

21:44.679 --> 21:47.080
[SPEAKER_00]: And you want it to be a place you unwind and let go.

21:47.780 --> 21:52.161
[SPEAKER_00]: And especially if you get beaten up by life, you want to come home to like home, right?

21:52.582 --> 21:54.102
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a refuge, like a refuge.

21:54.262 --> 21:54.502
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

21:54.822 --> 22:03.605
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you also want on days where you're like, it's time to like get your battle gear on and go out in the world, you want it to be a great place that you can launch from.

22:04.025 --> 22:04.806
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?

22:05.266 --> 22:07.728
[SPEAKER_00]: So a partnership is the same thing.

22:08.849 --> 22:12.211
[SPEAKER_00]: Having a good solid partnership is like a home.

22:13.012 --> 22:14.773
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to have a great home.

22:15.554 --> 22:16.455
[SPEAKER_00]: You need security.

22:16.495 --> 22:20.738
[SPEAKER_00]: And by that, I mean, in a metaphor of a home, you need like locks and doors and windows and shit and a roof.

22:20.958 --> 22:27.603
[SPEAKER_00]: But in a partnership, it's more like you help each other feel at home in the partnership.

22:27.964 --> 22:29.585
[SPEAKER_00]: And that has everything to do with security.

22:29.665 --> 22:31.686
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is about the nervous system.

22:32.627 --> 22:49.521
[SPEAKER_00]: and attachment, adult attachment, sort of theory, and having each other's backs in such a way that the other person feels safe and secure inside the partnership, which is the home, so that they can go out and do what they kick ass in life, and so that they have a safe place to come home to.

22:49.541 --> 22:55.666
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, more and more, I'm really big on emotional kind of security and safety.

22:56.682 --> 23:00.865
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, not in a enabling sort of way, but in a empowering way.

23:01.886 --> 23:02.146
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

23:02.346 --> 23:04.688
[SPEAKER_01]: So you mentioned nervous system.

23:05.268 --> 23:13.454
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that I often, I've worked with Stan Tatten, he actually had done, and I've seen that he's an ambassador for the relationship school as a work as incredible.

23:14.215 --> 23:14.495
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

23:14.515 --> 23:16.697
[SPEAKER_01]: We actually did, if we've done a few sessions with him.

23:17.157 --> 23:17.517
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

23:17.918 --> 23:18.678
[SPEAKER_01]: Brilliant.

23:18.738 --> 23:28.487
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he really helped underscore how one of the things I tell couples is when you're doing relationship or so called right, you're managing each other's nervous systems.

23:28.787 --> 23:29.007
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

23:29.047 --> 23:31.789
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a tuned and focused on each other's nervous systems.

23:32.090 --> 23:32.230
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

23:33.312 --> 23:34.132
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you learn this?

23:34.713 --> 23:47.098
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm because you didn't learn it in therapy class, studying how did you actually learn this as a, again, as a man who was emotionally shut down, what was the process?

23:47.138 --> 23:49.839
[SPEAKER_01]: What happened to you that you woke up to this?

23:50.798 --> 23:57.723
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I had to see, I mean, there's many things I could say, but the first thing is I had to see that my way was bullshit and it didn't work, right?

23:57.823 --> 24:02.065
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to throw on the white flag and say, okay, I suck at this.

24:02.526 --> 24:07.289
[SPEAKER_00]: In your way being like an in a sentence or two, blame her when I'm not feeling okay.

24:07.849 --> 24:08.850
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, great, perfect.

24:11.014 --> 24:13.115
[SPEAKER_00]: blame her for their way I felt in the relationship.

24:13.355 --> 24:15.035
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just want to emphasize that.

24:15.295 --> 24:17.316
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone listening that way.

24:17.416 --> 24:21.197
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, a man or woman blaming her or him for the way I feel.

24:21.477 --> 24:22.137
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't work.

24:22.557 --> 24:24.578
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I tried it for a minute.

24:24.638 --> 24:26.918
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I still try sometimes.

24:29.019 --> 24:29.379
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.

24:29.939 --> 24:32.640
[SPEAKER_00]: So I woke up to that and was like, OK, I'm going to learn.

24:32.940 --> 24:40.142
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when to grad school studied psychology, studied gestalt therapy, and started studying everything I could on relationships over many years met my wife.

24:41.237 --> 24:45.702
[SPEAKER_00]: be dated, and I started trying to figure this out in an actual real relationship.

24:46.983 --> 24:51.988
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have the language of nervous system, like even how to handle my partner or any of that language.

24:52.829 --> 24:56.132
[SPEAKER_00]: It was more just like, God, how do I stop being fucking triggered so much?

24:57.474 --> 25:00.477
[SPEAKER_00]: And why does she such a nightmare to be around when she's triggered?

25:01.698 --> 25:09.404
[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of stuff was more how it wasn't the beginning, but we found our way and we figured it out before actually I introduced her to Stan's work.

25:10.865 --> 25:12.106
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she ended up studying with Stan.

25:13.983 --> 25:17.985
[SPEAKER_00]: And before we studied neuroscience and her and I really geeked out on that conversation now.

25:18.706 --> 25:20.287
[SPEAKER_00]: So we found our own way.

25:20.447 --> 25:31.333
[SPEAKER_00]: And then once we started studying with Stan and Dan Siegel and all the neuroscience geeks, it put language in words to what we were experiencing and it just sunk in an even deeper.

25:31.930 --> 25:46.267
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and what would you say now, like give us the before and after of how an argument or how a, yeah, how a breakdown would occur in the past, I think I read somewhere that you and your wife even you broke up early in your relationship.

25:46.797 --> 25:47.938
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good memory.

25:47.978 --> 25:49.239
[SPEAKER_00]: We did a couple times.

25:49.259 --> 25:50.460
[SPEAKER_00]: We had a couple really hard breakups.

25:50.500 --> 25:59.147
[SPEAKER_00]: That was me in my pattern of basically fear making her wrong and wanting to kind of run away because again, I was uncomfortable.

25:59.187 --> 26:01.088
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know how to face my fears.

26:01.408 --> 26:01.549
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

26:01.569 --> 26:09.214
[SPEAKER_00]: So we broke up a couple times so that in that process, everything we thought about was about me having one foot in one foot out, which is back to security again.

26:09.295 --> 26:09.515
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

26:10.035 --> 26:13.799
[SPEAKER_00]: She couldn't let down because I had one foot out the door the entire time.

26:14.260 --> 26:18.344
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm guessing I'm guessing because you know, I'm relating to my own experience.

26:18.985 --> 26:21.107
[SPEAKER_01]: Your words were probably saying I'm too feet in.

26:21.127 --> 26:21.207
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

26:21.988 --> 26:25.752
[SPEAKER_01]: But there was something in you was definitely not too feet in.

26:26.212 --> 26:26.552
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

26:27.073 --> 26:32.117
[SPEAKER_00]: And it took me a while to see that and it took our second breakup for me to wake up to that.

26:32.137 --> 26:32.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

26:32.917 --> 26:35.659
[SPEAKER_00]: And then do the work to address the issue on my side.

26:36.140 --> 26:37.801
[SPEAKER_00]: But it, it wasn't clear to me.

26:37.821 --> 26:40.563
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a blind spot that I'd be like, honey, I'm here.

26:40.623 --> 26:43.765
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you, and then I was kind of annoyed that she'd needed reassurance, right?

26:43.785 --> 26:45.887
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, you shouldn't need reassurance.

26:45.947 --> 26:46.307
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm here.

26:47.448 --> 27:07.262
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I want to stay here from in adjacent because this is huge because I think so many men, again, same for me, man, I'm forty four years old, but I think every relationship I did until this one that I'm in now for over three years with Sylvie, I met her when I was forty one, but I think every relationship I, I was even married once in my twenties.

27:08.463 --> 27:18.413
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single relationship I was ever in, I believed I was at least on a superficial level, sort of what I was coming out of my mouth was that, yeah, I'm here, I'm in, but boy, I wasn't.

27:19.137 --> 27:26.520
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so how did that in retrospect, how do you know like what was actually happening for you that what did one foot outlook like for you or sound like in your head?

27:27.081 --> 27:31.643
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, looked like me always looking at other women in seeing if the grass is greener.

27:32.043 --> 27:39.867
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, maybe she'd be better and maybe I'd feel better with her versus with my current partner or she'd be easier.

27:40.587 --> 27:41.008
[SPEAKER_00]: easier.

27:41.028 --> 27:44.931
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe she'd meet this sort of fantasy I had in my mind.

27:45.572 --> 27:50.256
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I actually pursued one of these fantasy women that I didn't even know.

27:50.296 --> 27:51.257
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just infatuated.

27:51.277 --> 27:53.539
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just crashed and burned.

27:53.899 --> 27:55.781
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was really, really poorly.

27:55.801 --> 27:57.382
[SPEAKER_00]: And it kind of woke me up to

27:58.350 --> 28:08.952
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I had put all this, I've been dating this awesome woman who I've just basically been totally disrespecting by putting all this energy over here with this other woman, leaky energy kind of vibe.

28:09.773 --> 28:12.813
[SPEAKER_00]: And this other woman, I didn't even know, versus this woman I actually knew.

28:12.833 --> 28:14.034
[SPEAKER_00]: This other woman I didn't know.

28:14.414 --> 28:16.134
[SPEAKER_00]: And here I was saying, oh, she's so much better.

28:16.514 --> 28:17.975
[SPEAKER_00]: And men do this all the fucking time.

28:17.995 --> 28:27.637
[SPEAKER_00]: The grass is greener over here with this person who looks sexier maybe or acts differently or doesn't trigger me as much, but has the same amount of baggage just in a different form.

28:28.337 --> 28:29.158
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, different flavor.

28:29.178 --> 28:31.440
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not seeing it because I'm blind to it, right?

28:31.460 --> 28:33.001
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm just seeing what's positive.

28:33.721 --> 28:38.205
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is where a lot of affairs happen and then you haven't affair and then all of a sudden you're like, Oh, shit.

28:38.225 --> 28:39.686
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not actually that much better.

28:39.947 --> 28:41.007
[SPEAKER_00]: This woman has problems too.

28:41.588 --> 28:42.629
[SPEAKER_00]: And I could trigger it also.

28:43.870 --> 28:44.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

28:44.070 --> 28:48.153
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't really look fully human from a distance, which is on the other side of the fence.

28:48.433 --> 28:49.634
[SPEAKER_01]: You fill in the blanks, right?

28:49.674 --> 28:51.256
[SPEAKER_01]: We fill in the blanks with our fantasy.

28:51.616 --> 28:52.637
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, completely.

28:53.502 --> 29:02.845
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that happened and then I was on a month-long meditation retreat and then I had an amazing mentor call me out in a therapy session and the meditation retreat.

29:03.185 --> 29:07.787
[SPEAKER_00]: My wife now girlfriend at the time wrote me a really intense letter that I actually read every day.

29:09.202 --> 29:15.225
[SPEAKER_00]: was defensive the first time I read it and then it slowly started coming around and I was like, oh, shit, she has a point because I had enough time to sit with myself.

29:15.305 --> 29:20.889
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there's a lot of factors in there for me, but I had to humble myself and look in the mirror pretty hard.

29:21.129 --> 29:22.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, get some outside feedback.

29:22.730 --> 29:24.491
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, your wife wrote you a letter.

29:24.571 --> 29:25.491
[SPEAKER_01]: So here it is.

29:25.952 --> 29:33.076
[SPEAKER_01]: You said this earlier and this I think is really profound because when I'm communicating with women a lot, this is the message that

29:33.896 --> 29:37.159
[SPEAKER_01]: And speaking as a man, it's a tough one to deliver.

29:37.219 --> 29:41.142
[SPEAKER_01]: But I know my partner also, I know she doesn't need me.

29:41.162 --> 29:42.603
[SPEAKER_01]: I know she could leave me.

29:43.684 --> 29:54.213
[SPEAKER_01]: I know she's strong enough and independent of her spirit and being that if I don't show up for a relationship consistently, it won't work.

29:54.353 --> 29:55.034
[SPEAKER_01]: She won't stay.

29:56.767 --> 30:05.011
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've heard from you a few times in this conversation that you knowing your wife wouldn't hang around.

30:05.591 --> 30:13.034
[SPEAKER_01]: If you didn't do the work, whatever that looks like, lean into the relationship with both feet running in that direction.

30:13.915 --> 30:15.095
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you speak to that a minute?

30:15.135 --> 30:17.336
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think that that's really, really important.

30:19.317 --> 30:19.517
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

30:19.557 --> 30:25.600
[SPEAKER_00]: My wife and I are both committed to a growth-oriented relationship, which just means that we work on ourselves when we get stuck.

30:26.418 --> 30:27.439
[SPEAKER_00]: together or individually.

30:28.340 --> 30:32.004
[SPEAKER_00]: And because we don't want to be with a stock person and we don't want to stock relationship.

30:32.505 --> 30:35.328
[SPEAKER_00]: So that requires growing and working on ourselves and learning about ourselves.

30:36.269 --> 30:41.995
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're both really clear that if either one of us stopped doing that or was never into that, we wouldn't be with each other.

30:42.916 --> 30:45.218
[SPEAKER_00]: The other person would just have to grow the other person or move on.

30:46.365 --> 30:51.667
[SPEAKER_00]: because I don't want to be in a relationship or a partnership and either to she where someone's not pulling their weight.

30:52.988 --> 30:54.108
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a reality.

30:54.788 --> 31:07.033
[SPEAKER_00]: It's far from a reality, I'd say in this moment in time, because we both are so committed to each other and that work, that it's not a fear that it's present in my body in a day and in day out kind of way.

31:07.053 --> 31:15.257
[SPEAKER_00]: But early on, early in a relationship, that is pretty real that this person might leave, or if things are tenuous and not secure and kind of shaky,

31:16.237 --> 31:19.978
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's pretty common that people bail even after ten years.

31:20.639 --> 31:20.899
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

31:21.479 --> 31:29.902
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, as a psychotherapist working with couples in the relationship school, I mean, you're in the relationship space and I'm assuming your experience is at least.

31:30.958 --> 31:33.861
[SPEAKER_01]: of my experience has been, women love this work.

31:34.842 --> 31:38.566
[SPEAKER_01]: Men come to this work when they have no other choice.

31:39.006 --> 31:53.561
[SPEAKER_01]: When a woman in general, obviously there are some in, like me, like we come to it because we were genuinely, but even to some degree, we've hit a bottom at some point and it's like, okay, I have to drop my preconceived notions and think I know what's going on here and if I can help myself and actually learn for once.

31:54.482 --> 32:03.133
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of men, they get dragged into this work by a woman or women series of women who just say, I'm not doing this.

32:03.914 --> 32:06.998
[SPEAKER_01]: I refuse to continue like this.

32:07.479 --> 32:08.800
[SPEAKER_00]: Has that been your experience?

32:09.621 --> 32:10.683
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say it's both.

32:10.923 --> 32:11.964
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say more often than not.

32:13.320 --> 32:17.341
[SPEAKER_00]: Women are leading in terms of dragging the man metaphorically in some men.

32:17.361 --> 32:18.121
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not dragging.

32:18.161 --> 32:20.982
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just like, OK, fine, you know, dragging.

32:21.462 --> 32:21.642
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

32:21.782 --> 32:22.803
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, all right, I'm willing.

32:23.143 --> 32:27.004
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think we're OK, but OK, if you think we could improve, then fine, I'll go.

32:27.824 --> 32:32.566
[SPEAKER_00]: And then every now and then, yeah, I'd say maybe forty percent of time, I'd say more and more, which is cool.

32:32.826 --> 32:33.006
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

32:33.146 --> 32:40.128
[SPEAKER_00]: Men are like, yeah, this intimacy is a value and sex and partnership is a value that I care about.

32:40.948 --> 32:41.128
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

32:41.228 --> 32:42.469
[SPEAKER_00]: It's true that I care about it.

32:42.489 --> 32:43.869
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I need to put in a little effort here.

32:44.289 --> 32:44.889
[SPEAKER_01]: That's beautiful.

32:44.929 --> 32:45.390
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

32:45.410 --> 32:45.790
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

32:45.830 --> 32:47.410
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a beautiful way of languageing it.

32:47.430 --> 32:52.052
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think as men are listening, you just said something really interesting, intimacy.

32:52.092 --> 32:52.612
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a value.

32:52.712 --> 32:53.312
[SPEAKER_01]: I value it.

32:53.693 --> 32:53.853
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

32:54.333 --> 32:59.555
[SPEAKER_01]: And like anything, you know, I've been in the men's workspace for a number of years and one of the challenges is

33:00.435 --> 33:04.318
[SPEAKER_01]: in promoting or communicating to men and rolling men in this work.

33:04.438 --> 33:14.586
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the challenges is often men, it's sort of a, I don't know, a frustration in the men's coaching men's workspace that men generally will show up for if you're going to teach them how to make more money or have more sex.

33:14.986 --> 33:15.746
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right?

33:16.827 --> 33:25.173
[SPEAKER_01]: What you just spoke to though, I think I believe every man in his heart of hearts doesn't just want money or sex.

33:26.294 --> 33:29.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Those things are great, but it's the intimacy, it's the

33:30.632 --> 33:36.217
[SPEAKER_01]: My friend Robert Kindell says that men don't really just want sex, what they want is validation at a very deep level.

33:36.638 --> 33:38.459
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are just superficial ways of getting it.

33:38.559 --> 33:40.722
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, men want to belong.

33:41.022 --> 33:42.243
[SPEAKER_01]: And we want to connect as well.

33:42.663 --> 33:46.727
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whether it's connecting the same way, we just don't want to feel alone.

33:46.747 --> 33:50.931
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's like one of men's worst fears is to be alone or feel alone.

33:51.472 --> 33:55.756
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of men feel deeply alone, even though they have lots of friends, they

33:56.356 --> 33:58.120
[SPEAKER_00]: go to the game and they do whatever they do.

33:58.160 --> 33:59.703
[SPEAKER_00]: They're definitely alone inside.

33:59.824 --> 34:04.534
[SPEAKER_00]: And so to that man that's listening, if you're listening, you know, there's another way, bro.

34:04.975 --> 34:07.019
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a way you can feel less alone, but it starts with you.

34:07.748 --> 34:13.571
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that and I just want to let that really sink in that intimacy as a value.

34:14.511 --> 34:19.893
[SPEAKER_01]: And intimacy, I believe intimacy really begins with being intimate with our own selves as well.

34:20.033 --> 34:20.774
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we feeling?

34:21.554 --> 34:22.134
[SPEAKER_01]: What's happening?

34:22.154 --> 34:26.036
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk about waking up emotional literacy, if you will.

34:26.796 --> 34:32.559
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you do a lot of work with men just to help them feel what's happening in their bodies or emotionally?

34:33.373 --> 34:45.535
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, less so now, but I've done a lot of that work with men and when I have men come to the relationship school, what's cool about these guys is they're already pretty, um, emotionally aware.

34:46.340 --> 34:46.880
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

34:46.960 --> 34:51.162
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless, as you say, they're being brought there by a partner.

34:51.763 --> 34:55.824
[SPEAKER_00]: And the guy's like, isn't sure where it's maybe one of my intro events.

34:56.645 --> 34:59.446
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they'll be men who've never done any work on themselves.

34:59.506 --> 35:02.067
[SPEAKER_00]: Never done therapy, never read a book about relationship.

35:02.788 --> 35:09.050
[SPEAKER_00]: But they care enough about their marriage and their wife or partner to listen to her feedback into attempt.

35:10.031 --> 35:10.571
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is huge.

35:11.271 --> 35:13.452
[SPEAKER_00]: Because in that moment, he is making it a priority.

35:13.552 --> 35:14.493
[SPEAKER_00]: He is valuing it.

35:15.322 --> 35:16.363
[SPEAKER_00]: saying, OK, I'll see.

35:16.603 --> 35:18.704
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll kind of check this guy out and see what he has to say.

35:19.444 --> 35:21.165
[SPEAKER_00]: But at least he's in the bleachers.

35:21.805 --> 35:22.005
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

35:22.085 --> 35:23.486
[SPEAKER_00]: That's better than being out in the parking lot.

35:23.926 --> 35:24.126
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

35:24.847 --> 35:31.470
[SPEAKER_00]: And then maybe I have a chance to impact his life and maybe I can speak to him in a way that he understands because a lot of the

35:32.310 --> 35:35.671
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of women will approach men with the therapy speak stuff.

35:36.031 --> 35:37.711
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't connect.

35:37.751 --> 35:44.573
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't register, especially if guys have grown up with a very domineering masculine type father that wasn't in the home.

35:44.613 --> 35:46.234
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's still not a part of their work culture.

35:46.674 --> 35:48.214
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, what are you talking about?

35:49.535 --> 35:50.475
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to respect that.

35:50.595 --> 35:51.835
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, okay.

35:51.855 --> 35:52.115
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cool.

35:52.375 --> 35:53.516
[SPEAKER_00]: You're speaking a different language here.

35:53.576 --> 35:58.197
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you want your wife and you want to actually stay married, dude, you got to learn a little bit here.

35:58.577 --> 35:58.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

36:00.226 --> 36:08.353
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jason, I want to ask you a final question in the main body of our conversation and then I want to move to the what I call the five key takeaways finale.

36:09.274 --> 36:10.314
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a big question.

36:11.355 --> 36:19.222
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think is the greatest challenge facing men today and what wisdom can you offer in the face of it?

36:19.652 --> 36:27.575
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's easy for me to answer because this is my opinion, what I think for so many years is just male conditioning, male conditioning.

36:28.395 --> 36:33.137
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is how we raise boys and indoctrinate boys from a very young age about how to be.

36:33.617 --> 36:40.339
[SPEAKER_00]: And that turns into grown men who are in a very narrow gender straight jacket about how they can be.

36:41.119 --> 36:42.180
[SPEAKER_00]: And they don't even know they're in it.

36:42.967 --> 36:43.607
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the hard part.

36:43.647 --> 37:01.953
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like this costume I'm wearing and I'm walking around and I can't see that I'm I have no perspective to show me that I'm stuck deeply entrenched in a way of being a man that's actually I'm subordinating to an external frame of reference about how to be and it's actually not mine.

37:03.082 --> 37:10.387
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think this prison is that's initially conditioning and then itself may prison as you become older.

37:11.328 --> 37:13.389
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the biggest thing in the way for men.

37:13.830 --> 37:14.790
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, beautiful.

37:15.191 --> 37:15.571
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

37:16.271 --> 37:19.494
[SPEAKER_01]: I can relate again, having done this work for so many years.

37:21.715 --> 37:28.403
[SPEAKER_01]: Still, whenever I'm watching something, or I don't know, I'm touched by something, and my body wants to cry.

37:28.423 --> 37:32.187
[SPEAKER_01]: My partner's around, even if she's not around, even though no one's in a round.

37:33.088 --> 37:35.891
[SPEAKER_01]: Even when I'm alone, there's a big part of me is like, don't do that.

37:36.372 --> 37:36.532
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

37:37.708 --> 37:43.855
[SPEAKER_01]: and yet it has become such a beautiful release and wonderful feeling when I really allow myself to cry.

37:44.756 --> 37:45.117
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.

37:45.877 --> 37:48.200
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, on the other side of crying is like relief.

37:48.280 --> 37:49.882
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, fuck, there I am again.

37:49.922 --> 37:50.503
[SPEAKER_00]: There's my heart.

37:50.623 --> 37:51.003
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

37:51.904 --> 37:53.326
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been in my head for a month or whatever.

37:53.346 --> 37:53.966
[SPEAKER_01]: There's my heart.

37:54.647 --> 37:55.147
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome, man.

37:55.588 --> 38:00.190
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to finish up with the five key takeaways finale in the point of this final round.

38:00.230 --> 38:02.351
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, the five key takeaways finale.

38:02.512 --> 38:04.333
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so open to another name for that.

38:04.473 --> 38:08.295
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't quite landed on what really feels good.

38:08.315 --> 38:09.455
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what I got so far.

38:09.495 --> 38:14.838
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you got a suggestion or anyone listening can come up with a better name for that, it would be lovely.

38:15.359 --> 38:16.299
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what it is for now.

38:16.319 --> 38:22.403
[SPEAKER_01]: The five key takeaways finale in the point of this is to leave men with very specific.

38:23.103 --> 38:31.224
[SPEAKER_01]: practices, tools, insights that they can begin to work with or look up, go research immediately following this conversation.

38:31.365 --> 38:34.925
[SPEAKER_01]: So number one, the key insight.

38:35.805 --> 38:46.047
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you've offered a lot of insights, but what's the one key insight that you would offer listeners that you believe can make a meaningful impact on their lives because it has in yours?

38:46.067 --> 38:49.348
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've been thinking about this one.

38:51.696 --> 38:57.821
[SPEAKER_00]: There's many, and I know I'm being forced to squeeze it into one, just one, Demon, is one.

38:58.281 --> 39:08.409
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say your past relationship pain will follow you into your next relationship until you deal with it.

39:09.030 --> 39:11.832
[SPEAKER_00]: And it will keep showing up and following you like a tail.

39:13.193 --> 39:14.693
[SPEAKER_00]: and tell you address it.

39:15.053 --> 39:28.616
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're complaining about that or blaming your current partner for stuff that's really about your mom or someone else in your past, it's time to consider, do I want to keep playing it this way?

39:29.416 --> 39:38.917
[SPEAKER_00]: What I want to see if I can get at the bottom of this one and clear that pain and work through it to the point where I see that it's actually helped me become who I am.

39:39.638 --> 39:42.078
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you had a nice way of saying that in the beginning when you talked about

39:42.905 --> 39:48.589
[SPEAKER_00]: You're fighting right as a boy and how you're like, think, I got lost so many fights because it taught me a new skill.

39:48.849 --> 39:49.069
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

39:49.649 --> 39:54.973
[SPEAKER_00]: So do what Brian did basically and you got to see your past injuries as fuel on your journey.

39:55.652 --> 40:00.235
[SPEAKER_00]: and really genuinely reframe them, or they're just gonna keep following you around.

40:00.495 --> 40:01.036
[SPEAKER_01]: That's huge.

40:01.776 --> 40:02.177
[SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.

40:02.637 --> 40:02.977
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

40:03.057 --> 40:04.198
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one, Jason.

40:04.478 --> 40:04.678
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.

40:05.139 --> 40:05.639
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect man.

40:06.540 --> 40:14.125
[SPEAKER_01]: Number two, key mentor, name another man that you've been inspired by, living or dead, that you would recommend the men listening to learn more about.

40:15.727 --> 40:17.287
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, gosh, I have so many mentors.

40:17.327 --> 40:18.788
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel so grateful for all of them.

40:19.368 --> 40:21.428
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say Dr. John D. Martini.

40:21.688 --> 40:23.629
[SPEAKER_00]: He's had a massive influence on my life.

40:24.509 --> 40:29.330
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's a guy who is a polymath, wears a business suit every day of his life.

40:29.370 --> 40:40.452
[SPEAKER_00]: He travels three hundred and sixty days a year, teaching classes all over the world on money, success, relationships, fulfillment, universal laws and principles, teaches about the cells and the cosmos.

40:40.492 --> 40:42.533
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a very expanded person.

40:43.729 --> 40:52.135
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a really gifted teacher, and I've studied with him a lot, and he's helped me, again, reframe my pass back to the key takeaway number one.

40:52.856 --> 40:59.120
[SPEAKER_00]: He helped me get that ability because psychotherapy, as much as I studied with amazing people, didn't give me that ability.

41:00.181 --> 41:05.325
[SPEAKER_00]: So this guy took the lid off for me, and he's very accessible.

41:06.025 --> 41:11.669
[SPEAKER_00]: He has classes all of the world, so you can just Google, DrDMartini.com, and you could actually sign up for his breakthrough experience.

41:12.450 --> 41:24.736
[SPEAKER_01]: highly recommended so we can little change your life great and all this will be in the show notes if you're listening that that link will be in the show notes at Brian Reeves dot com slash men this way podcast.

41:26.597 --> 41:35.602
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome and number three the key resource your most impactful inspiring book movie or podcast of the last year.

41:36.792 --> 41:39.016
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, I've got, can I say one of each there?

41:39.336 --> 41:39.577
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

41:40.037 --> 41:40.278
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.

41:40.719 --> 41:40.919
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

41:41.500 --> 41:41.961
[SPEAKER_01]: The movie.

41:42.041 --> 41:42.962
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you see Free Solo?

41:44.215 --> 41:45.236
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but I've heard about it.

41:45.777 --> 41:46.117
[SPEAKER_01]: Shit.

41:46.337 --> 41:46.658
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?

41:46.678 --> 41:47.859
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the climbing movie, right?

41:47.919 --> 41:48.599
[SPEAKER_01]: The climbing movie.

41:48.740 --> 41:49.040
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

41:49.440 --> 41:50.701
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really killer.

41:50.802 --> 41:54.265
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really interesting to watch his relationship dynamic with the woman he's dating.

41:54.665 --> 41:55.066
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.

41:55.086 --> 41:56.027
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause I used to be a climber.

41:56.047 --> 41:59.270
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a rock climber and I was an emotionally unavailable rock climber like this guy.

41:59.630 --> 42:01.352
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I loved it so much.

42:01.792 --> 42:02.333
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, excellent.

42:02.513 --> 42:03.214
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

42:03.254 --> 42:05.596
[SPEAKER_00]: And the climbing footage is just fucking over the top.

42:05.616 --> 42:06.737
[SPEAKER_00]: You gotta see it a big theater though.

42:07.918 --> 42:11.900
[SPEAKER_00]: So that one, and then I want to recommend two books, BrainStorm by Dan Siegel.

42:12.140 --> 42:13.221
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually for parents.

42:13.261 --> 42:22.686
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a parenting book, but even if you're not a parent, it's awesome for the nervous system, adult attachment, neuroscience, stuff if you're into that kind of work.

42:22.906 --> 42:28.749
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the book called Sapiens, you know, about human history, I think is changing the way I see the world.

42:29.709 --> 42:30.810
[SPEAKER_00]: Extremely impactful.

42:31.210 --> 42:32.170
[SPEAKER_00]: Sapiens, okay.

42:32.190 --> 42:32.611
[SPEAKER_00]: Sapiens.

42:32.991 --> 42:36.153
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get that on audible or just the book Amazon.

42:36.753 --> 42:36.993
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

42:37.689 --> 42:41.080
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what was the last part of that question podcast?

42:41.722 --> 42:43.608
[SPEAKER_00]: Boy, I listened to a lot of podcasts.

42:44.494 --> 42:48.216
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say, I like how I built this NPR.

42:49.456 --> 42:56.540
[SPEAKER_00]: I just like inspiring stories of companies who've built to become really successful and also really impactful in the world.

42:57.040 --> 42:59.842
[SPEAKER_00]: So how I built this has been a fun business.

42:59.862 --> 43:01.803
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're into business, that podcast is great.

43:02.243 --> 43:02.423
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.

43:03.183 --> 43:03.483
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

43:03.764 --> 43:06.465
[SPEAKER_01]: Number four, key investment in the last year.

43:06.545 --> 43:10.567
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the best thing you spent money on under ten thousand dollars?

43:12.877 --> 43:39.264
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, again, a lot of choices here, but I'd go with the top one being last year I invested in taking my family to Vancouver on a ten-day trip and over my birthday and coupled with speaking engagement up there and I did a little event, but the coolest part was just being with my family out on the ocean and in nature we swam in like crystal turquoise waters and rivers and

43:40.064 --> 43:45.169
[SPEAKER_00]: My son and I went on an Orca ship and saw Orca's a close by and learned about them.

43:45.309 --> 43:47.972
[SPEAKER_00]: So it took some great band photos on the same thing.

43:48.372 --> 43:50.274
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great family photos, great selfies.

43:51.635 --> 43:53.256
[SPEAKER_00]: And my son really took to the Orca.

43:53.276 --> 43:54.037
[SPEAKER_00]: Like in a really cool way.

43:54.057 --> 43:55.418
[SPEAKER_00]: I was really impactful for him.

43:55.498 --> 44:00.063
[SPEAKER_00]: So to watch my kids kind of their lives change because of a travel experience.

44:00.103 --> 44:02.265
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, whoa, yeah, that was really deep.

44:02.780 --> 44:11.145
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my dad left divorce my mom when I was four, but some of my greatest memories are of doing road trips with him in the years following.

44:11.865 --> 44:15.147
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's really when I got to be with him in this man, price list.

44:15.187 --> 44:16.327
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for sharing that.

44:16.648 --> 44:17.208
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, cool.

44:18.289 --> 44:19.729
[SPEAKER_01]: And finally, key practice.

44:19.969 --> 44:31.416
[SPEAKER_01]: Please offer one practice, spiritual, creative, personal, or relational that has served you well and that you challenged the men listening to take on for the next seven days.

44:32.703 --> 44:38.828
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, hopefully this has already been mentioned because the more something gets mentioned, maybe the more a guy's likely going to do it, right?

44:39.809 --> 44:40.189
[SPEAKER_00]: Feedback.

44:40.670 --> 44:44.854
[SPEAKER_00]: Get feedback from ear three closest friends in the next week.

44:45.594 --> 44:52.060
[SPEAKER_00]: And the question is, hey friend, I want you to give me brutally honest feedback about how you experience me.

44:53.121 --> 44:55.463
[SPEAKER_00]: What are my strengths and what do you think my weaknesses are?

44:56.082 --> 44:57.783
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do I complain and act like a victim?

44:58.463 --> 45:00.084
[SPEAKER_00]: Where am I strong and solid?

45:00.644 --> 45:01.865
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want you to not hold back.

45:01.905 --> 45:02.965
[SPEAKER_00]: I can take care of myself.

45:03.846 --> 45:05.267
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just want you to bring it strong.

45:05.547 --> 45:06.227
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want it.

45:06.807 --> 45:13.551
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're up for it, I want our relationship to be like this, that we do this for each other from time to time.

45:14.651 --> 45:15.752
[SPEAKER_00]: So that does a number of things, right?

45:15.772 --> 45:18.194
[SPEAKER_00]: It immediately is like, oh, shit, it's kind of intimate, right?

45:18.274 --> 45:18.474
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

45:18.854 --> 45:21.016
[SPEAKER_00]: Practicing intimacy with other men.

45:21.877 --> 45:23.218
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's men like challenge.

45:23.278 --> 45:27.101
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's saying, I want to be challenged and you're saying, I'm opening myself to being challenged.

45:27.441 --> 45:31.664
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're also maybe you challenged that man with feedback also.

45:31.764 --> 45:35.407
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're also taking your relationship to the next place.

45:36.228 --> 45:41.051
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of dudes are in very stagnant, stuck, complacent relationships with each other.

45:41.071 --> 45:41.652
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

45:42.289 --> 45:46.631
[SPEAKER_00]: They get together, they'll spend hours together, but they won't be talking about anything of substance.

45:47.691 --> 45:52.353
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's just turn it up a notch and get intimate here and get real for a little bit and see what happens.

45:52.573 --> 45:52.953
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

45:53.773 --> 46:01.436
[SPEAKER_01]: You actually, another guest, Mickey Willis, offered a similar type of, really have conversations, have real conversations with other men.

46:01.456 --> 46:07.118
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's so many reasons why what you just said to and I love how you highlighted challenge.

46:07.338 --> 46:08.439
[SPEAKER_01]: We men do love challenge.

46:08.479 --> 46:09.279
[SPEAKER_01]: We need challenge.

46:09.419 --> 46:10.880
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to feel challenge and we get bored.

46:11.580 --> 46:11.720
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

46:12.430 --> 46:14.573
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a really great practice.

46:14.633 --> 46:20.461
[SPEAKER_01]: So I encourage every man listening, reach out to three friends and ask for that feedback.

46:21.034 --> 46:27.658
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and by the way, if you're feeling challenged in your relationship as a listener and you're like, yeah, I don't, I don't want actually more challenge in this department.

46:28.379 --> 46:37.805
[SPEAKER_00]: If you really don't want more challenge in your relationship, then you need to learn how to listen differently and act differently and behave in a way that is more awesome for your partner.

46:38.305 --> 46:42.167
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she will come back or he being less challenging to you.

46:42.608 --> 46:42.748
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

46:43.308 --> 46:54.426
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so it's a weird way of saying, okay, if you want to stop complaining about how challenging your partnership is, then it's time to double down and learn something different so that you have more easeful partnership, even though it's still going to have challenge.

46:54.784 --> 47:13.662
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're really pointing at a beautiful paradox that we'll probably have to do another podcast on sometime because I have also experienced, there's a famous statistic in our or famous sort of fact in our space, the relationship spaces of the thing that men complain about most is fighting, not enough sex too much fighting.

47:14.002 --> 47:14.123
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

47:14.952 --> 47:28.804
[SPEAKER_01]: And ironically, we less in fighting, we can get through a fight quicker when we actually lean in with with our energy, with our curiosity, with our openness, with our willingness to experience feedback.

47:29.285 --> 47:30.446
[SPEAKER_01]: They actually go away faster.

47:30.466 --> 47:31.647
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice, well said.

47:32.107 --> 47:38.733
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you so much, Jason with a why, where can listeners learn more about you and what you're up to?

47:39.073 --> 47:41.133
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, you've been on my podcast.

47:41.193 --> 47:42.294
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called The Smart Couple.

47:42.354 --> 47:44.434
[SPEAKER_00]: So folks can check that on on Stitcher iTunes.

47:45.594 --> 47:46.415
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's great.

47:46.595 --> 47:47.875
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian had an awesome.

47:48.155 --> 47:50.176
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that podcast ended up being awesome.

47:50.316 --> 47:51.556
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for the recap.

47:52.536 --> 47:53.276
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man.

47:53.296 --> 47:54.937
[SPEAKER_00]: And relationshipschool.com.

47:55.997 --> 48:00.958
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where you can get a lot of resources, access to courses and podcasts and so many things.

48:01.474 --> 48:14.421
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think also you have a program where people who want to be relationship coaches can actually study with you and learn from you and deepen their own practice of that's prepared to be a coach too.

48:14.921 --> 48:15.642
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you got it.

48:15.722 --> 48:16.042
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

48:16.062 --> 48:17.042
[SPEAKER_00]: We have three levels of that.

48:17.323 --> 48:20.824
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a nine month training and you got to apply and get accepted.

48:20.864 --> 48:22.485
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a very rigorous.

48:22.525 --> 48:23.246
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty burly.

48:23.866 --> 48:30.790
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're really committed to changing your relationship life, learning how to help other people with theirs will confront you and about every core of your being.

48:31.413 --> 48:34.014
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've heard people say, uh, there's too many coaches.

48:34.134 --> 48:35.114
[SPEAKER_01]: There's too many, whatever.

48:35.374 --> 48:35.875
[SPEAKER_01]: No, there's not.

48:35.915 --> 48:37.435
[SPEAKER_01]: We need armies of coaches.

48:37.615 --> 48:39.896
[SPEAKER_01]: We need armies of people doing this work.

48:40.036 --> 48:44.578
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not enough, I mean, in its time, and it's only moving more so in that direction.

48:44.638 --> 48:44.978
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.

48:45.298 --> 48:45.558
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

48:45.578 --> 48:46.258
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.

48:46.298 --> 48:47.499
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody needs a mentor, right?

48:47.519 --> 48:50.680
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if seven billion people are here, like if we all had mentors, like Holy Shit.

48:51.240 --> 48:51.480
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

48:52.240 --> 48:52.701
[SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful.

48:53.141 --> 48:53.881
[SPEAKER_01]: Jason Gaddis.

48:54.221 --> 48:55.161
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, man.

48:55.202 --> 48:59.163
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a real pleasure and an honor to connect with you again and have you on this way.

48:59.780 --> 49:01.672
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks for doing the work you're doing, Brian.

49:01.813 --> 49:02.920
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome to be with you again.