163. KINGS COUNCIL: Living in Alignment, Letting Go, & Giving Your Gift Even When No One Cares

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[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Bridging Connections.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Formerly known as men this way.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host, Brian, with Hawaii Reaves.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Former U.S. Air Force Captain turned author and professional coach to men, women, and couples.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Alongside me as co-host, my lifelong friend of over 40 years to air it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Here we have the raw, real conversations.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We need to be happy about the topics that matter most.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Relationships, purpose, health, spirituality, and more.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Please subscribe to stay connected.

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[SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's dive.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, in today's episode, I'm offering something deeply personal, something I've only offered once before on the show.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And a better on the feedback, I might start sharing more of this, like seriously, if you send me a message, email me at BrianRef.com, or even better, leave a review on your favorite podcast app.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Let me know, is this meaningful because you see for the last two years, I've been meeting every other week or so for an hour with four brilliant and insightful men, including two wise elders who've been on the cultural front lines of mental health, psychology, spirituality, men's work, and really all matters of the human soul for a very long time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Our conversations are always personal, just five men gathering to talk about what's really going on for us.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What we're each working through, we reflect on our challenges and sometimes talk about current cultural issues and we really flow wherever else the heart and curiosity takes us.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I've sadly had way too few truly wise elders as a consistent presence in my life, maybe you can relate to that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so this time with these men is so precious.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And these conversations are always rich, and so real, and always moving on a soul level.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I asked these men if we could start recording our conversations, these meetings,

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[SPEAKER_02]: if something particularly profound came through that day where they'd be okay with me sharing it on this podcast as an episode.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And they all and fathically agreed to that, whether it was sounding yes.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And well, this past Tuesday was such a day.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so here I am inviting you into listen to this intimate and inspiring conversation.

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[SPEAKER_02]: In this conversation, I'm joined by the Wise Elder, Larry Winters, a poet, playwright, psychotherapist,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Therapist and Coach Mikey Brackett, who has an excellent grasp of young-y and depth psychology and archetypes, a man named Troy Ravens Eye, who always brings gifts to each of our conversations, and my mentor and wise elder John Lee, Therapist, and author of the classic book The Flying Boy, and one of the OG pioneers and men's work.

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[SPEAKER_02]: In this dialogue today, a predominant theme is the dance between working hard to make things happen in life from a forceful, egoic place and allowing things to happen by first getting into internal alignment with spirit, with God, with the Dow, with your higher self.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a beautiful, raw, real conversation between men who lead this kind of healing work by staying committed to being in the work ourselves.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So welcome.

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[SPEAKER_02]: May this conversation stir something ancient in you?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'll start with the good news.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I've been a while since I've had it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I found as big of a shithole place as this is.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I found the most beautiful place I probably ever lived.

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[SPEAKER_04]: except for the time that I was at Mikey's place.

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[SPEAKER_04]: There's this beautiful spiritual retreat center out in the woods, out in the mountains about 15 minutes from here.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And it is a gorgeous, gorgeous place.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And they have an apartment, a two bedroom,

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[SPEAKER_04]: that I've written it starting January.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Ah, wonderful.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And it's an incredible place.

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[SPEAKER_04]: If I had the money, I would buy it by the whole place.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's a big, beautiful house.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's got a writer's cottage on it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: your meeting space, meditation, place, and they own like 11 acres and all through the acreage on your walk is these really beautiful shrines that they put up to sit by Christian

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[SPEAKER_04]: Japanese, it's just lovely, and the beauty of the place is only matched by the beauty of the saying that happened with the landlord, so the landlord's 75, same age as I roughly, and

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[SPEAKER_04]: canner and tempo of the retreat places sort of based on osho's teachings.

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[SPEAKER_04]: They were members of that in India.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's going to be perfect for you, John.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: All that, all that frenetic energy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Jumping in the middle of the place.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, not so much.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's toned down quite a bit.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Then so he's interviewed me.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So what do you do?

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[SPEAKER_04]: What, what do you do for a living?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Are you retired?

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[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, well, you know, I'm therapist and I've written some books and we're going on with the interview to see if he's going to read it to me.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And then he said, so what kind of books did you write?

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[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, well, self-help, psychology, personal growth, men's issues.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Men's issues.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, I wrote a book years and years ago that got me in the men's thing.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And he jumped up and he jumped up, literally out of his chair.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And he said, are you the John Lee who wrote The Flying Boy?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, we, and hugged me, and hugged me, and I'm going, what the fuck, you know what I mean?

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[SPEAKER_04]: We were just having a interview here, and he was weeping, and he said back down, and he said, back in the early 90s, I read that book.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I bought my father a copy of that book,

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[SPEAKER_04]: and then he and I went to a men's gathering together in San Francisco.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He said he said that that book changed me and my dad's life fairly rest of our life.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it was testimony to what did testimony John, but what a synchronicity yes as much as anything I mean sure that book is 43 years old nobody thinks about that book anymore much you know and And so his wife comes in and she sees him weeping

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[SPEAKER_04]: and he's trying to explain to her in between the tears what it just happened and so I was deeply touched to say the least and

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[SPEAKER_04]: And of course, I got to have got the apartment.

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[SPEAKER_04]: That's beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Are you going to be up in the black mountains?

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[SPEAKER_03]: John.

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[SPEAKER_03]: No.

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[SPEAKER_04]: The opposite direction sort of.

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[SPEAKER_04]: How far?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: This is the little town called Weaverville, which is about 15 minutes from Ashfield.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And it's.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's just so beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_04]: The place is called, y'all gonna look it up on the thing and see it's called Samasati, Samasati.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Mike, do you know how to email them that easily?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I can do them.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I sent Mike, I knew I had Mike he said just a Senate yesterday because we were talking back and forth.

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[SPEAKER_04]: If you would send them that link, there's a video of the place and pictures of the place.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, John, what that, what your story, what's happening for you is reminiscent of where it reminds me of and reassures me of.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Did you guys ever see that movie cast away?

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, thanks.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I love that movie.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm so struck in that movie, how he spent four years on that island.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Four years alone, not sure if he'd ever ever get home and then, you know, as he's telling a story later after he's got an all the island, he says, and then one day, and

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, life brought me a sale, just in just out of nowhere, a piece of that corrugated metal washes up and he's able to turn it into a sale.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I just think about that a lot, because I think John, like you've been on a a voyage, John, for this last couple years now, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's awesome.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'll left Austin.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You're in a hall most of your year.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Go, go, go, go.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so about a year and you left and then, I mean, I think we've all gotten a text here or two from you saying, this is the worst decision I've ever made in my life.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Right, right, so you had to you had to spend some time alone on a really spare and island and now life has just sent you a sale and is bringing you home to somewhere that that you know, you just just everything's aligning in your, you know, I could see how lit up you are and how relieved you are, you know, and even in the could even the community that you're

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[SPEAKER_02]: here, you're going into and yes, true, all of Osho's, all of Osho's and here it's all older now, so they're chill.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right, the more of the group sex origin stuff.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's more more like the remnants of Osho's, but the teachings are there, matter of fact, the owners, the man and woman who own it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: are selling this property and they're moving to Greece where they have a property and an old show community of elders live there.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And so the caveat to my good luck is

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[SPEAKER_04]: they're trying to sell it and the their caveat about selling it is the person or people who buy it have to maintain it as a spiritual retreat.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And so while the owners are so in my

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[SPEAKER_04]: But this is the kind of place that would take properly.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It would take another synchronistic event to find somebody who could shell out a million and a half and turn it and keep it as a spiritual retreat, right?

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[SPEAKER_04]: So I might have it three months or three years.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Right, right, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, that's that's my good.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Good.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Lots of business.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, happy for you.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that is real good news.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, I've been, John, I just got to comment a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, have you, have you ever heard of this guy Red Hawk?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I've heard of him, I haven't read anything.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So he wrote, book called Self Remembrance and then Self observation.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And he says, you have to remember yourself first so you can observe yourself, which is right.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a lot of different teachings he has in here.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But what's interesting is he quotes Oshah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: a lot.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I know I read one of his books years ago and it was like, well, okay, but, but here's here's something he he quoted, oh, Shes saying ordinarily we are walking bundles of solutions to problems that no longer exist.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody is so you are carrying thousands of

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[SPEAKER_03]: is hindering your capacity to know it is not knowledge.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Drop all the solutions that you are carrying, drop all the answers that you are carrying, just remain silent.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And whenever a question arises out of that silence, you will hear the answer.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It will not come from you.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It will not come from anywhere.

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[SPEAKER_03]: it will come from your inner most nethingness.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Why?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Damn, that was good.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That was really nice.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I have that that reminds me of a, I was working with my, I'm working with a young and therapist and yesterday yesterday in our session told me a story about the rainmaker.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell

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[SPEAKER_02]: You say, just just give me a, I just need a hut, just a small hut.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, what do you need in that hut?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing, just a just a Matt just a need a sitting a hut.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And he would go and he would sit in the hut.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And he would he he to to get right with the dow.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the things were out of balance.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The Dow was out of balance.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I guess in the second of this is extremely condensed story.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we'd go and sit in the hut to just get right with the Dow and to allow the rains to come, not force them to come, not make them come, but allow the rains to come by just getting right with the Dow.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I hear in the in the story you just shared.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I came up yesterday in our session because I'm in a season where my business is a hard season for the work that I do and the business that I do and the period that I'm in.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This is a hard season because I attempt to do a lot of generating at least that's the story.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I believe that this is a lot of generating, a lot of productivity, especially at a time where my body wants to go inward.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's winter, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: It tells you guys it's like 55 degrees

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[SPEAKER_02]: like I just want to go inward.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so we were talking about that, you know, just really the most of the vital work that I can be doing right now is I love what you just wrote about.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think I have all these solutions, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I know how this has to be done.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This is our sixth year doing this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I just got to do it like I did in the past and I'm already exhausted by it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Already exhausted by trying to implement old the the solutions I already carry in my body and they don't really work and not working anyway, no, and the temptation is a double down go harder.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know, man, so yeah, I really loved what you just read this very yeah, it's beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, I did not know where or or who.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But I heard that the rain story within the last 30 days.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, wow.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know where it came from.

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[SPEAKER_04]: That's all for me.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Who?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But as you were telling, that's all.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I just heard this story.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's such a good story because I think it permeates this idea of alignment, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, not not not so much the solution comes from your intellect and your head, but it It comes forth from being aligned with nature because that's what he's doing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He's sitting there in nature and and

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, this guy talks about nature and he gives his example from this Sue medicine man, this said, if you're disconnected from the earth, you'll go crazy.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, it got me thinking, you know about attachment theory.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And when we think about attachment theory,

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[SPEAKER_03]: mainly from an infant to its mother, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then what happens if there's unsecure attachment, there's problems, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: And yet so many people are not properly say secure attachment to the earth or self.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, this guy was talking about how our mind is constantly splitting everything, splits us from our bodies, splits us from the earth, you know, the big belief is that we're separate.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And he says, and two, you really grieve the belief that you're separate, you can't move on.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, wow, man, that's it, man, yeah, yeah, it's, you know, I mean, first you got to accept the idea that you're not separate.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, in my mind, I can intellectualize, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not separate, but they're still this

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, he says, if you're not connected to the earth, you'll go crazy.

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[SPEAKER_04]: As a collective society, we've gone crazy because you're not connected to the earth.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And that's exactly what he says to me.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And the consequence of that is we're destroying the very thing that we're not connected to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think there's another way to look at it and not use earth, which for me is pretty, they huge to think about earth, but my body.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I was like, yeah, there are things that I cannot do whether I want to or not.

20:34.853 --> 20:37.416
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to surrender to that.

20:37.936 --> 20:45.845
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to listen to the messages that come through my body, which are not always ones that I want to hear.

20:46.927 --> 20:53.374
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have known choice at this point because the body is giving me messages all the time.

20:59.497 --> 21:17.625
[SPEAKER_00]: is pretty much what you're saying, that I have to surrender to the reality that I'm not going to live forever, that I have to wake up to what I'm being told, which is simply to be present, to be present in my body.

21:17.685 --> 21:19.408
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it telling me?

21:19.428 --> 21:21.471
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not confusing.

21:22.565 --> 21:50.378
[SPEAKER_00]: my brain is confusing, but my body isn't, that's the choice of that I take because when I hear the world or the nature, and this is a huge thing, and my body is part of that.

21:52.248 --> 22:11.745
[SPEAKER_04]: minimizing the connection because really the expanded version of that is connected to the universe, not just the earth, but the planets and the stars and the sun.

22:12.526 --> 22:15.572
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the bigger connection.

22:16.514 --> 22:22.100
[SPEAKER_04]: that may be one has to be connected to the earth before they can reach that connection.

22:24.142 --> 22:26.504
[SPEAKER_03]: Mother Earth Father Sky.

22:26.644 --> 22:27.165
[SPEAKER_03]: That's yeah.

22:27.285 --> 22:29.927
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's one of the big transitions.

22:30.027 --> 22:42.640
[SPEAKER_03]: Most middle-age men eventually have to make is this leave the father and the mother and then the father and the mother is the earth and the sky.

22:43.480 --> 22:44.061
[SPEAKER_03]: Very good.

22:44.081 --> 22:47.026
[SPEAKER_02]: You mean the father and the mother become the earth in the sky?

22:47.687 --> 22:49.911
[SPEAKER_02]: So, transitioning away from the human.

22:49.971 --> 23:05.337
[SPEAKER_03]: The human, the human, the mind, the father, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and so aligning with those energies right and then aligning with your own as as Larry was talking about your body doesn't lie.

23:05.317 --> 23:21.621
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and I mean, it's like, even lately and when I go to bed, I've been having this practice about just touching my entire like touching my feet and thank you feet touching my ankles touching my legs, thank you legs, you know, and really trying.

23:21.601 --> 23:31.992
[SPEAKER_03]: to not take my body for granted, but begin to really recognize that it holds wisdom like the earth does and it can teach me and it gives me messages all the time.

23:32.512 --> 23:35.155
[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes they say, all of that hurts, I don't want it.

23:35.255 --> 23:42.663
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me take a pill to make you go away or I need to fix it, but what is it really trying to tell me, right?

23:42.943 --> 23:47.288
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, or my favorite is, yeah, that hurts a little bit, but you can do more.

23:48.365 --> 23:54.054
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not serious, that's not a real, you're not really feeling that pain.

23:54.094 --> 23:54.695
[SPEAKER_02]: Just keep going.

23:55.436 --> 23:57.920
[SPEAKER_02]: And next thing I know I can't use my arms.

23:58.461 --> 24:00.544
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's why I just wanted to do that.

24:01.446 --> 24:07.215
[SPEAKER_04]: I told my doctor, I'm having some cardiac issues, a pretty big time.

24:08.076 --> 24:13.765
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I asked her to give me some medication and

24:14.757 --> 24:23.246
[SPEAKER_04]: And she says, so I'm really glad that you are not suffering and that you're asking for help with this stuff.

24:24.247 --> 24:27.830
[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, yeah, I said about a year or two, maybe I'll share this video.

24:28.191 --> 24:34.057
[SPEAKER_04]: Said about a year or two ago, I had a physical problem, I can't remember what it was.

24:34.877 --> 24:36.119
[SPEAKER_04]: But I thought, you know what?

24:36.739 --> 24:42.385
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to pretend that I'm a woman and I'm going to call the doctor.

24:43.782 --> 24:54.963
[SPEAKER_04]: She said, what, I said, yeah, I said, you know, I just pretended I was a woman and then I'm not going to suffer with pain and I'm going to call the doctor.

24:55.564 --> 25:02.016
[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, that's what I'm doing now is I've been in this painful thing for a day and I'm not going to go to.

25:02.877 --> 25:07.005
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to just pretend I'm a woman again and that's why I call it may do appointment.

25:07.778 --> 25:10.952
[SPEAKER_04]: And she said, well, that's brilliant.

25:11.755 --> 25:14.447
[SPEAKER_04]: I said, yeah, because women will not.

25:14.528 --> 25:17.752
[SPEAKER_04]: let their arm hurt for five days.

25:18.633 --> 25:21.657
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, right, it's not, it's not to fool the doctor.

25:21.717 --> 25:22.698
[SPEAKER_02]: It's to fool yourself.

25:23.038 --> 25:28.105
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly, you know, a woman says, oh, I got, I got a pain in my shoulder.

25:28.685 --> 25:29.426
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, what are you going to do?

25:29.486 --> 25:32.370
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to call the doctor, you know, and check it out.

25:32.991 --> 25:39.979
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there's a reason my wife has overwriting authority on our dog's health.

25:39.959 --> 25:41.020
[SPEAKER_02]: Same thing.

25:41.881 --> 25:42.782
[SPEAKER_02]: Same exact thing.

25:42.802 --> 25:51.793
[SPEAKER_02]: The dog would probably be dead by now, if I had, you know, majority vote on whether we take the dog to the vet if it's growing up, if it's has, you know, has an injury.

25:52.874 --> 25:57.640
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she, she has me because I'll just, I'll just, you know, put some windex on it and move on.

25:57.660 --> 25:58.240
[SPEAKER_05]: It should be fine.

25:58.741 --> 26:00.683
[SPEAKER_02]: That that, you know, her fall grow back.

26:01.404 --> 26:04.988
[SPEAKER_00]: When I worked in the hospital every group I had.

26:06.368 --> 26:13.476
[SPEAKER_00]: 14 people in it and probably 10 of them are women that was pretty average.

26:13.743 --> 26:14.424
[SPEAKER_00]: Really.

26:14.844 --> 26:15.305
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

26:15.785 --> 26:17.728
[SPEAKER_00]: They, yes, they, us for help.

26:17.748 --> 26:18.168
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

26:18.629 --> 26:19.129
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

26:19.189 --> 26:19.370
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

26:19.570 --> 26:20.251
[SPEAKER_00]: That's for how.

26:20.471 --> 26:21.432
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the ratio.

26:22.253 --> 26:22.994
[SPEAKER_04]: That's for help.

26:23.755 --> 26:23.855
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

26:23.875 --> 26:24.976
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

26:24.996 --> 26:30.403
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, it's kind of like the voice for me, Brian, that comes up all the times.

26:30.643 --> 26:31.644
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not that bad.

26:31.684 --> 26:33.026
[SPEAKER_03]: It'll be okay.

26:33.386 --> 26:36.470
[SPEAKER_03]: And you can handle it.

26:36.490 --> 26:36.590
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

26:36.730 --> 26:43.598
[SPEAKER_04]: I did a video last week of of of aging and asking for help.

26:44.219 --> 26:47.726
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know, y'all probably didn't see it.

26:48.367 --> 26:51.333
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's just for, I don't see it actually, I love it.

26:51.373 --> 26:52.095
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw it.

26:52.115 --> 26:52.556
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, did you?

26:52.576 --> 26:52.696
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.

26:52.716 --> 26:53.297
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, good job.

26:53.317 --> 26:54.580
[SPEAKER_04]: A little video.

26:55.161 --> 26:59.730
[SPEAKER_04]: And six thousand people viewed that video.

27:00.048 --> 27:07.821
[SPEAKER_04]: really, John congratulations, but now I didn't it didn't turn into business or money or any of that.

27:08.482 --> 27:17.297
[SPEAKER_04]: But oh, I'm shocked, you know, shocked that the message seemingly hit.

27:17.716 --> 27:32.569
[SPEAKER_04]: hear the nerve, you know, about men asking, well, I didn't really focus on men, just aging people need to ask for help and then they also need to be able to accept it when it's offered.

27:32.954 --> 28:00.261
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, that really hit me big that, you know, when people offer help, especially to us elderly people, it's like, I can't believe I'm an elderly person, but the the the the the graciousness is to receive it and let people help as opposed to turning them away.

28:01.827 --> 28:17.682
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it's kind of like, you know, like, Mikey, I said I'm gonna be moving in January, and the first thing Mikey said is if you need some help, let us know, and as soon as he said that, I went back to my own video.

28:17.802 --> 28:20.704
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought, yeah, no, I'm gonna miss it.

28:20.824 --> 28:22.786
[SPEAKER_04]: I could move this stuff by myself.

28:23.307 --> 28:27.851
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't have very much, but why turn it down?

28:28.151 --> 28:30.113
[SPEAKER_04]: No.

28:30.481 --> 28:54.835
[SPEAKER_04]: And as a age and get older, I'm going to need more help, not less, so I need to start practicing, you know, and VJ said he would, he would help with the move and I said, yep, all right, thanks, you know, where as I think even a year ago, I would have said to Mike and VJ not got it, thanks, it's not that much, I got it, right, yeah.

28:55.355 --> 28:58.039
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just want to offer John as well.

28:58.460 --> 29:06.153
[SPEAKER_02]: What is overwhelmingly absent from social media are the voices of elders?

29:07.194 --> 29:09.298
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, that's what Pat love my friends.

29:09.418 --> 29:12.423
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what actually inspired me to do the video.

29:13.204 --> 29:16.890
[SPEAKER_04]: I was talking to her the week before.

29:17.391 --> 29:18.493
[SPEAKER_04]: She's 82.

29:19.148 --> 29:25.020
[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, I said to her, you know, you don't let people help you a lot.

29:25.121 --> 29:37.647
[SPEAKER_04]: You've been so independent, and I said, and I essentially said to her, what I said on the video, and she said, now this is the kind of thing that you need to post on video.

29:37.711 --> 30:00.953
[SPEAKER_04]: And I, because I've never done a video much before and I do, I would do little print things on on, yeah, you know, Instagram or whatever, but I thought okay, she said you need to put this kind of thing on video and did and got six thousand views.

30:02.214 --> 30:04.917
[SPEAKER_02]: Now imagine imagine doing one video.

30:05.251 --> 30:06.793
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, starting on a one a week.

30:07.114 --> 30:07.534
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

30:07.574 --> 30:11.200
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what I'm going to be and then maybe work up to three or four a week.

30:11.600 --> 30:15.706
[SPEAKER_02]: Just short 60 seconds little clips little, you don't have to get all profound and crazy.

30:16.127 --> 30:21.835
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, just just a little nugget like that just dropped into the tsunami that is.

30:21.855 --> 30:23.698
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what she said.

30:23.979 --> 30:26.703
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep, just let it do it.

30:27.043 --> 30:29.427
[SPEAKER_04]: Let it go move on to the next.

30:29.447 --> 30:29.987
[SPEAKER_04]: Right there.

30:30.809 --> 30:31.790
[SPEAKER_04]: Mikey, how you doing, man.

30:32.091 --> 30:33.953
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, as fixed as the same question.

30:33.973 --> 30:34.414
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

30:34.782 --> 30:35.664
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing all right.

30:35.724 --> 30:41.839
[SPEAKER_01]: I've we just had the holiday obviously and so just getting back into the flow of a regular week.

30:41.959 --> 30:45.147
[SPEAKER_01]: And did you have family at your place?

30:45.346 --> 30:51.174
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my mom came up, which is fine, you know, she's, she's a little puella.

30:51.354 --> 31:02.410
[SPEAKER_01]: So, in that regard, she's not a bad person or a difficult person, but she's just very young and the way she approaches things.

31:02.430 --> 31:06.736
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's a lot of energy to entertain that.

31:06.876 --> 31:10.982
[SPEAKER_01]: But overall, it's all good.

31:10.962 --> 31:31.553
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think I've been committed in this season to trying to do like artist recovery, you know, like the artist way and things like that and so I did my I've been doing my journaling in the morning and stuff like that and what just continues to come up for me and I think you said something last time Brian that stuck with me just like

31:33.338 --> 31:37.384
[SPEAKER_01]: I have felt like I've always felt like I was meant for more.

31:37.525 --> 31:43.895
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always felt like I had something to bring forward in in different ways.

31:43.955 --> 31:51.246
[SPEAKER_01]: I've tried to do that, and I feel like the thing that's coming up for me more and more lately

31:52.205 --> 32:11.608
[SPEAKER_01]: What if I stopped doing that in the way of trying to make the world quote, unquote a better place and like actually put a lot of that energy into me actually taking a risk on the things that I've had be like peripheral for so long.

32:12.669 --> 32:18.356
[SPEAKER_01]: The more like overt, art types of things like music and poetry.

32:18.376 --> 32:22.060
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, things that I've always loved and had like on the periphery,

32:22.546 --> 32:31.442
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I actually get into that and I found it like as I wrestled with that over the past months it just continues to build this energy of like.

32:33.585 --> 32:39.576
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know calling purpose whatever, but I'm let way less.

32:41.632 --> 32:46.761
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm way slower to try and define it in some way.

32:46.781 --> 33:04.872
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one thing that I've struggled with it, and maybe even this speaks to what you're talking about Brian, but it's like, we have ideas for things we want to do, we have things we feel like to matter, and then the most immediate impulse I find that I struggle with is, okay, well, how do I turn it into something?

33:06.438 --> 33:24.598
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel called to help men, how do I become a men's therapist, how do I do retreats, how do I did it, like instead of just being like what is this calling beyond that or I want to be, you know, I've worked in music production often on throughout my adult life in.

33:24.578 --> 33:28.204
[SPEAKER_01]: ways that I wish were bigger, but I want to do music production.

33:28.244 --> 33:28.985
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to write songs.

33:29.005 --> 33:29.445
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I want to do this.

33:29.506 --> 33:29.746
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

33:29.766 --> 33:32.130
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, how do I start a studio?

33:32.230 --> 33:34.032
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I do this?

33:34.213 --> 33:41.183
[SPEAKER_01]: And it jumps almost immediately to try to make it into something or try to put it into some sort of career kind of thing.

33:41.784 --> 33:42.045
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

33:42.265 --> 33:50.097
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've been really trying to check that a lot lately and just try to hold this tension

33:51.241 --> 34:07.393
[SPEAKER_01]: work can be work all in can be calling artistry can be artistry you know if they all came together cool but the reality is they never have for me and that's not meaning that they won't

34:08.048 --> 34:22.909
[SPEAKER_01]: But because they never have, I've missed out on each one of those things being their own independent reality because what has ended up happening is well now work has dominated everything or trying to figure out purposes dominated everything.

34:22.950 --> 34:33.685
[SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately throughout my life, the more artistic pieces as lingered in the background and so.

34:34.036 --> 34:41.164
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, wrestling with that idea of like, I know I have things to say and bring forward the world definitely seems to give two shifts about any of that.

34:42.005 --> 34:52.938
[SPEAKER_01]: So what if I, what if I just release some of that maybe younger, more heroic need, you know, but to do something there you go, okay, well.

34:54.420 --> 35:00.988
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm in my little office here in the woods and I would be probably well served today if I.

35:02.032 --> 35:12.845
[SPEAKER_01]: playing it up and made it more conducive to just creating and, you know, just continue to focus every day on a little bit more creation, a little less trying to figure it out.

35:13.807 --> 35:22.077
[SPEAKER_04]: See, but you just finished the book that you've been thinking about for a couple of years now, he wrote artist.

35:23.078 --> 35:27.043
[SPEAKER_04]: See, it's coming together in your life.

35:27.428 --> 35:51.073
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I was thinking, I don't know this is true, but I'm going to guess that most artists that have achieved some level of notoriety and success were not simultaneously trying to create art and figure out how to make money on it or how to get it out to the public.

35:52.403 --> 35:57.589
[SPEAKER_04]: that they just created it and then stuff sort of happened or didn't.

35:58.831 --> 36:01.734
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, like Van Gogh, it didn't until it did.

36:03.356 --> 36:13.428
[SPEAKER_04]: But I imagine, you know, take somebody or my favorite singers James Taylor.

36:14.249 --> 36:20.757
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't imagine it 18 and 19 when he was writing

36:22.238 --> 36:25.423
[SPEAKER_04]: those incredible songs when he wrote in his youth.

36:25.443 --> 36:32.514
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't imagine he was simultaneously thinking, now how do I package this and get it to the marketplace?

36:33.997 --> 36:39.726
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, for every James Taylor that succeeded, there's a hundred, that's right.

36:39.746 --> 36:43.572
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right, and they still kept creating, though,

36:44.378 --> 37:11.078
[SPEAKER_04]: My best, my best example, a personal example is I room had a roommate and friend back in college and he decided that he was going to be a poet no matter what and and he has taught English as a second language for 40 years.

37:12.020 --> 37:19.531
[SPEAKER_04]: just enough to pay the bills, just enough for a little studio apartment.

37:19.551 --> 37:40.643
[SPEAKER_04]: And that guy writes poetry daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, little little chat books, little bits of reviews, but no way in hell could he sustain his life on the income that they break, you know.

37:41.129 --> 37:45.913
[SPEAKER_04]: But I always think of him as the guy that I, I wasn't.

37:46.294 --> 37:49.977
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I, I would say, okay, I'm going to do this now.

37:50.237 --> 37:51.459
[SPEAKER_04]: Hopefully I'll make a living.

37:52.439 --> 37:55.122
[SPEAKER_04]: And he just, he just lived his poetry.

37:56.323 --> 38:00.767
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm thinking of that's reminiscent again of the rain of the rainmaker story.

38:00.887 --> 38:09.415
[SPEAKER_02]: And the, you know, the, it does a monk meditating in his little room in a monastery.

38:09.884 --> 38:18.642
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, to see an impact on the consciousness of the world and that, in the, in the, in the story of the Dow and the connection of all the one that's of all things, of course he does.

38:20.606 --> 38:20.707
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

38:20.727 --> 38:27.100
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Mikey, you know, man, you and I I think are in very similar boats in the sense of, you know, you and I are.

38:28.514 --> 38:51.822
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not we're like, we're young enough to have been part of this internet phenomenon, but on the older side that we didn't quite figure out all the structures and all the systems that, you know, the average 23 year old understands and On one hand, it's like,

38:51.970 --> 38:57.575
[SPEAKER_02]: We have the levers of immense success and visibility.

39:01.299 --> 39:02.920
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, just professional success.

39:03.000 --> 39:04.622
[SPEAKER_02]: It just seems like it's right there.

39:04.662 --> 39:05.623
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a push of a button.

39:05.643 --> 39:10.107
[SPEAKER_02]: If I just post a video, if I just do XYZ, because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, than boom, right?

39:10.147 --> 39:20.357
[SPEAKER_02]: And look, man, I have, I know I've done okay for myself in that domain, but compared to where a lot of my friends

39:20.978 --> 39:32.384
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm fucking nobody like my friends, some of my friends, they figured that shit out and they've they've, you know, and even I hear from them that it's often like, how can they get more views, more this, more that?

39:32.425 --> 39:39.561
[SPEAKER_02]: And the thing that's come into me, Mikey, is, do you ever read that book, uh, illusions, Richard Bach?

39:40.587 --> 39:41.869
[SPEAKER_02]: a long time ago.

39:42.250 --> 39:42.630
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

39:42.670 --> 39:45.575
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.

39:45.595 --> 39:45.975
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

39:46.075 --> 39:51.203
[SPEAKER_02]: The subtitle illusions, uh, the adventures of a reluctant Messiah.

39:51.504 --> 39:51.944
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

39:51.964 --> 39:54.008
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.

39:54.528 --> 39:56.171
[SPEAKER_03]: That was the subtitle.

39:57.293 --> 39:59.316
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the adventures of a reluctant Messiah.

39:59.416 --> 40:02.781
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I love about that book and why it's coming up for me now is.

40:02.761 --> 40:09.939
[SPEAKER_02]: is it's a short of it, it's a fictional story of a man who can do miracles.

40:10.861 --> 40:13.869
[SPEAKER_02]: He can let a tape like he can just do, he can manipulate reality.

40:14.370 --> 40:20.365
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a true enlightened master.

40:20.345 --> 40:33.510
[SPEAKER_02]: He spends all of his time in a field in fields in Indiana and Ohio and just just given, you know, nickel rides and is by plane to whoever shows up in the field.

40:34.064 --> 40:35.125
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's all he's doing.

40:35.226 --> 40:41.514
[SPEAKER_02]: And the story is kind of told from his sidekick, the guy who's Richard Bach, is the author.

40:42.676 --> 40:44.819
[SPEAKER_02]: He's sort of telling a story and he's narrating.

40:44.859 --> 40:48.023
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like imploring this messiah.

40:48.043 --> 40:50.026
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, dude, don't you have a big message for the world.

40:50.046 --> 40:52.309
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to go out there and give it.

40:52.728 --> 40:55.370
[SPEAKER_02]: and reluctance Messiah is like, fuck that.

40:55.971 --> 40:56.912
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't say it like that.

40:56.952 --> 40:58.113
[SPEAKER_02]: He says it much more eloquently.

40:59.254 --> 41:01.876
[SPEAKER_02]: Much more poetically, but he's like, nah, I'm good.

41:01.936 --> 41:04.579
[SPEAKER_02]: The world doesn't really want what I have to offer anyway.

41:04.619 --> 41:05.740
[SPEAKER_02]: I would just be crucified.

41:07.221 --> 41:19.412
[SPEAKER_02]: And so anyway, just a, I think about that story a lot too, because I, you know, I, I, that like, I think similar to you, Mikey, I have that part of me that wants to go give the greatest gifts that I have to serve the world and do.

41:19.452 --> 41:21.334
[SPEAKER_02]: My God, I have such medicine.

41:22.343 --> 41:38.412
[SPEAKER_02]: And I take I personally I take great comfort in that that it's like if I really I guess if the really enlightened awakened part of me knows that that's foolishness on some level it's it's it's foolishness.

41:38.746 --> 41:51.889
[SPEAKER_02]: Or do it don't do it, but it changes, you know, it's in the end scheme of things better to just be in my field and give nickel rides to the passers by and my by plane and give them a little bit of joy in the moments and.

41:51.949 --> 41:56.597
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's wanted to share that's what can.

41:56.657 --> 41:58.240
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

41:58.490 --> 42:15.958
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what resonates from me out of that Brian is, you know, I think every man in this call has guests they want to give and make good medicine and what really resonated for me was what John was saying was,

42:16.175 --> 42:22.806
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, I put out this video about asking for help and receiving it, maybe I should take my own medicine, right?

42:22.987 --> 42:29.357
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think oftentimes we're so busy wanting to help everybody else, we don't help ourselves.

42:30.339 --> 42:34.446
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're not drinking our own medicine and moving ourselves along, right?

42:36.510 --> 42:36.750
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

42:36.790 --> 42:39.094
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this idea that, you know,

42:39.800 --> 43:00.306
[SPEAKER_04]: as a writer especially I had to come to and I feel like I have is the world doesn't need another book but if I write one okay but it's not like the world needs another book you know and and the same thing is the world

43:00.522 --> 43:07.370
[SPEAKER_04]: at this stage in my life doesn't, doesn't need me to help it out.

43:07.390 --> 43:11.656
[SPEAKER_04]: I can choose to do what I can, but it doesn't need me anymore.

43:12.737 --> 43:13.097
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

43:14.639 --> 43:17.463
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I'm just, um, not killing.

43:17.483 --> 43:23.610
[SPEAKER_04]: That's, that's, that's, in the, in the 70s speaking, not my 40s or 50s.

43:23.843 --> 43:29.608
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, you know, I'm, and I'm guessing Larry has a similar thing.

43:30.069 --> 43:38.737
[SPEAKER_04]: He'll write his book and he'll get the book out, but I'm guessing, you know, that the world doesn't need another book.

43:40.259 --> 43:40.719
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it.

43:41.039 --> 43:42.701
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm beginning to know it very well.

43:43.081 --> 43:52.230
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

43:52.970 --> 43:53.972
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

43:53.992 --> 43:55.755
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure did need my last five.

43:57.598 --> 44:01.925
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I think, you know, bring brings a question for me if I was up like, what is it that I need?

44:02.526 --> 44:11.080
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I think, I think all of us on this, I think all of us on this call can have permission to ask that question in some regard because.

44:11.532 --> 44:15.657
[SPEAKER_01]: We're probably more on the codependence side than we are on the grandiose side.

44:16.618 --> 44:18.180
[SPEAKER_01]: At least I know I am for sure.

44:18.741 --> 44:26.130
[SPEAKER_01]: My tendency has been to take the more helping posture throughout my life as opposed to taking the more receiving posture.

44:26.631 --> 44:33.760
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything served me in serve my inflation and yeah, yeah, like that's never been on my radar.

44:34.162 --> 45:02.025
[SPEAKER_01]: But I could probably use to have a little bit of that as I pursue the things that feel right genuinely do that at my core to to give myself more permission and give myself more clarity around yeah I can sit down and write us all later today and that can be good at you know or I can cut out time and say no to this client because I want to do whatever.

45:02.005 --> 45:24.840
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think I learned early on that, you know, the the worth or the significance of what I had to offer was tied up in the impact that it had or the reach that it had and I think our current culture definitely, you know, totally.

45:26.204 --> 45:29.829
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, I grew up in the Christian world, so it's like, you have to go out there and make an impact.

45:29.849 --> 45:31.572
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to go out there and do all this stuff.

45:31.612 --> 45:50.400
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like there's all this jargon around doing and being a new name and so it's like the reprogramming comes in to say, well, I've done a lot of shadow artist things my life, but now I can take the over position and it can be okay.

45:51.962 --> 45:53.224
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, stop being helpful.

45:53.845 --> 45:55.868
[SPEAKER_04]: right.

45:55.888 --> 45:57.351
[SPEAKER_04]: And just help yourself.

45:59.915 --> 46:10.732
[SPEAKER_04]: There is a little commercial TV a few years ago where this little girl, I like a three-year-old sitting in the back seat of the car and her little car seat.

46:11.553 --> 46:16.841
[SPEAKER_04]: And father says driving and he says a little girl.

46:17.923 --> 46:21.709
[SPEAKER_04]: And he says,

46:21.875 --> 46:26.523
[SPEAKER_04]: And the little three year old says, Daddy, you mind your own business.

46:28.466 --> 46:30.790
[SPEAKER_04]: So.

46:30.810 --> 46:42.289
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'll never forget that commercial is that three years old, she knew what was her business and what was his business and that all, you mind your own business, you know.

46:43.691 --> 46:45.975
[SPEAKER_04]: And this idea that, you know.

46:47.103 --> 46:47.944
[SPEAKER_04]: What do I need?

46:47.964 --> 46:50.366
[SPEAKER_04]: You're asking the right questions for all of us.

46:50.466 --> 46:51.387
[SPEAKER_04]: What do I need?

46:52.508 --> 47:09.264
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, the poem, y'all may help me out here, the Emily Dickinson poem, where the line Bad paraphrase, if I've made one person's load lighter, that's sort of the law.

47:10.205 --> 47:13.768
[SPEAKER_04]: Not one million, but what?

47:15.132 --> 47:17.817
[SPEAKER_04]: then she's saying the life has been a success.

47:19.119 --> 47:22.084
[SPEAKER_04]: And everybody on the screen is already done that.

47:23.306 --> 47:26.712
[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes to the tenth power, either.

47:27.132 --> 47:35.046
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also think, Mikey, that all, I do a number of things besides right.

47:36.067 --> 47:38.271
[SPEAKER_00]: I make things in my basement.

47:39.854 --> 47:41.195
[SPEAKER_00]: do all our work.

47:42.136 --> 47:43.658
[SPEAKER_00]: I have written music.

47:44.258 --> 47:47.401
[SPEAKER_00]: I have done a number of things in each time I do one of these.

47:47.441 --> 47:58.752
[SPEAKER_00]: It satisfies something in me and it all sort of, I want it to come together so all of it is available.

47:58.773 --> 48:09.523
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just to head off in one direction and I think that you're perfectly set up for that because you've cultivated these things.

48:09.925 --> 48:21.276
[SPEAKER_00]: they're coming into view right now for you and I think the more of those things you pay attention to in the end it's going to make all of it better.

48:21.317 --> 48:29.044
[SPEAKER_00]: All of the all the songs you write will be informed in an incredible way because of all the other work you've done.

48:30.546 --> 48:39.595
[SPEAKER_00]: The guitar that you make is going to be special because of all the different things that you've been available to you as you evolved.

48:40.115 --> 48:43.440
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a way to consider it.

48:44.322 --> 48:46.565
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything feeds everything.

48:47.126 --> 48:50.071
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll take all said everything in your environment.

48:50.832 --> 48:52.354
[SPEAKER_00]: Effects who you are.

48:52.975 --> 48:55.900
[SPEAKER_00]: The tree outside the stone on the road.

48:57.202 --> 49:00.086
[SPEAKER_00]: The raven that just flew over your head.

49:00.868 --> 49:03.051
[SPEAKER_00]: All of this is part of the moment.

49:05.562 --> 49:10.691
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, and I think part of what I hear too, that I get caught up in.

49:11.492 --> 49:23.733
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, it just really sticks a sticks to my heart, Brian is when you talked about the one potential client about well, what are the deliverables, right, which which is enough.

49:23.854 --> 49:27.520
[SPEAKER_03]: Another way is saying how am I going to measure this.

49:27.500 --> 49:29.082
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I'm gonna measure it, right?

49:29.643 --> 49:34.028
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we measure things through views, especially on social media.

49:34.048 --> 49:34.869
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, views you got.

49:35.029 --> 49:36.631
[SPEAKER_03]: We're measuring, right?

49:36.651 --> 49:37.733
[SPEAKER_03]: How much money do you make?

49:37.753 --> 49:38.354
[SPEAKER_03]: We're measuring.

49:38.414 --> 49:39.976
[SPEAKER_03]: How many copies of the book did you sell?

49:40.056 --> 49:40.777
[SPEAKER_03]: We're measuring.

49:41.297 --> 49:54.574
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, but what I will say is like, John, you writing a book called The Flying Boy in 43 years later, you're sitting across from a man that starts weeping as he remembers it.

49:55.115 --> 49:57.017
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, how do you measure that?

49:57.132 --> 49:59.957
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't measure that.

49:59.977 --> 50:05.526
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you like Larry was saying about making something that creates meaning in your own being?

50:05.586 --> 50:10.554
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't go down the home depot and buy that and that creates that same meaning, please.

50:10.574 --> 50:21.351
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's what we're missing in our, say, in our masculine culture these days is that creating and making gives us something inside of us that we can't go by.

50:24.284 --> 50:33.408
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a conversation about AI and I've been thinking about how people are using it with my friend Peter.

50:33.508 --> 50:35.273
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about it a lot.

50:35.540 --> 50:43.050
[SPEAKER_00]: And he says, basically, garbage and garbage out, creativity and creativity out.

50:43.070 --> 50:45.253
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it becomes a mirror in some way.

50:45.754 --> 50:52.623
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we begin to talk about what we do with our hands and this culture, what young people are doing with their hands.

50:53.204 --> 50:54.666
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on the keyboard with their hands.

50:54.726 --> 50:56.749
[SPEAKER_00]: They communicate through the tips of their fingers.

50:58.151 --> 50:59.893
[SPEAKER_00]: And in reality,

51:00.143 --> 51:07.152
[SPEAKER_00]: If you use your hands in multiple ways, there's a whole lot of information that you're getting.

51:08.373 --> 51:16.624
[SPEAKER_00]: When you make something, you know, I have to go in my basement periodically and just pick something up and work with it.

51:17.004 --> 51:19.347
[SPEAKER_00]: And I got shit laying all over the place.

51:19.367 --> 51:20.649
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll put things together.

51:20.709 --> 51:22.371
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll do whatever I want.

51:22.652 --> 51:25.375
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is that is truly the therapy for me.

51:25.945 --> 51:29.930
[SPEAKER_00]: My hands, I know we're all the tools.

51:30.010 --> 51:34.195
[SPEAKER_00]: I know how to use the tools and it just feels good.

51:34.236 --> 51:48.814
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll come up and I'll show my way for what I made and I'll give it to some kid, and that is that complete something that made all this talk and all this figuring out that doesn't do.

51:49.688 --> 51:56.724
[SPEAKER_02]: And my wife got me a bonsai tree from my birthday last year, and what that was in May.

51:56.744 --> 52:00.532
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is that five months ago, six months ago, seven months ago.

52:00.572 --> 52:07.528
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's largely sat on molested on touched on cared for.

52:08.369 --> 52:24.045
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, in part, because I didn't really know what to do in part because I don't have the time and just two days ago a friend of mine who has like 20 bonds I at his home came over and started to help me get at it and I realized it's like, I have to train myself.

52:25.647 --> 52:33.736
[SPEAKER_02]: Just slow down to the pace of working with a bonsai and it's not as there's so much resistance in me to it.

52:35.277 --> 52:36.098
[SPEAKER_02]: And.

52:36.972 --> 52:39.296
[SPEAKER_02]: which is why I know it's going to be also so good for me.

52:40.818 --> 52:49.271
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's my favorite Arabic quote that I got quote, odd nauseam, haste of the devil and slownesses of God.

52:51.134 --> 52:51.274
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

52:51.294 --> 52:51.835
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no.

52:52.416 --> 52:58.445
[SPEAKER_04]: Took me 20 years to begin to integrate that into my every part of my life.

52:59.186 --> 53:05.376
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't do it all often, like even this house, I am

53:05.575 --> 53:19.365
[SPEAKER_04]: But as I age, slowness to everything ends up a better result in a more harmonious outcome than when I do something speedy.

53:20.645 --> 53:20.965
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

53:21.286 --> 53:21.966
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

53:22.107 --> 53:38.105
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, I, I, on an intuitive level, I know that the slowing down is going to serve everything in my life, but the, but the, you know, living in LA in the middle of the valley, being in the social media culture, then there's, there's no such thing as a slow pace.

53:38.185 --> 53:40.948
[SPEAKER_02]: There's everything is happening at lightspeeing.

53:42.449 --> 53:47.395
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, like, it's a, it's a subversive action to,

53:47.864 --> 53:52.828
[SPEAKER_02]: step out of that and just be with my bonsai.

53:54.833 --> 53:57.656
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have not succeeded yet, just to be clear.

53:57.756 --> 54:02.360
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a task that is still, it's coming.

54:02.780 --> 54:04.221
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't solve my A.I.

54:04.282 --> 54:05.563
[SPEAKER_04]: subscription yesterday.

54:05.643 --> 54:11.088
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like now, I do it this.

54:12.089 --> 54:16.172
[SPEAKER_02]: You made, you made them $20 a month, exactly.

54:16.192 --> 54:17.533
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what it's about, $19.95.

54:17.573 --> 54:20.236
[SPEAKER_04]: No, but $29.95.

54:20.296 --> 54:21.237
[SPEAKER_04]: Something like that, yeah.

54:21.817 --> 54:23.579
[SPEAKER_02]: When, when for the humans.

54:23.599 --> 54:24.840
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's right.

54:24.820 --> 54:27.083
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

54:27.103 --> 54:30.048
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what do you go ahead?

54:30.308 --> 54:35.756
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the interesting there thing Brian I heard is, is that word resistance?

54:36.698 --> 54:38.821
[SPEAKER_03]: And I deal with that a lot in my own life.

54:38.841 --> 54:46.192
[SPEAKER_03]: Like every other day I go to the gym and every other day I have this resistance to it.

54:46.713 --> 54:47.794
[SPEAKER_03]: It's too cold out.

54:47.975 --> 54:49.136
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to go.

54:49.196 --> 54:50.759
[SPEAKER_03]: It'll be too much work.

54:51.279 --> 54:51.580
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

54:51.600 --> 54:53.022
[SPEAKER_03]: But every time I go,

54:53.002 --> 54:55.866
[SPEAKER_03]: better for me than if I had not.

54:56.106 --> 55:19.195
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, so I'm trying to, you know, sometimes it's like the resistance is built in and if for whatever reason, and I could spend mental gymnastics forever trying to figure out where it is, why it's there, but then still, it's in the day, you know, I've become through one choice after the other.

55:20.390 --> 55:24.736
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, this is a very simplistic mute, but I appreciate it for years.

55:25.317 --> 55:33.307
[SPEAKER_04]: This guy named Thaddeus Golos wrote this tiny little book, probably back in the 70s.

55:34.709 --> 55:37.032
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe early 80s, but I think it's the 70s.

55:37.913 --> 55:40.677
[SPEAKER_04]: It's called the Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment.

55:41.770 --> 55:59.976
[SPEAKER_04]: and and the theme of the book, which I really do not live in black and white terms much, but the theme of the book is we're either in a state of contraction or expansion.

56:01.579 --> 56:02.500
[SPEAKER_02]: Openness or closure.

56:03.101 --> 56:09.330
[SPEAKER_04]: Openness or closure, you know, and of course he's saying in his tiny little book

56:09.462 --> 56:18.297
[SPEAKER_04]: that the goal is not only to be in expansion, but to recognize what we're still contracting around.

56:19.399 --> 56:26.811
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, and one of the things that I've always been contracted around was money.

56:26.851 --> 56:34.744
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, that it's very hard and only recently,

56:35.332 --> 56:40.196
[SPEAKER_04]: have I started trying to expand in that realm.

56:40.216 --> 56:51.666
[SPEAKER_04]: But to identify what areas of life am I still contracted in and how do I move that to the expansion that he's talking about?

56:54.669 --> 57:05.018
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's sort of a theme of what we've been talking about today

57:05.504 --> 57:14.996
[SPEAKER_04]: where am I small and almost fist-like as opposed to palm open?

57:15.978 --> 57:19.242
[SPEAKER_04]: And money has always been mine.

57:19.823 --> 57:32.980
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess the other one is relationships, contracted around that, I mean, Jesus, I haven't been in a romantic relationship years.

57:34.546 --> 57:45.057
[SPEAKER_04]: years and years and years and more years, more years, oh, fellas, what a great gift.

57:45.197 --> 57:48.801
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, good to see you all.

57:48.861 --> 57:50.863
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's lovely to see you all.

57:51.344 --> 58:00.013
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I got to expand into a therapist and be a little counselor.

58:00.196 --> 58:09.829
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, good to see y'all talk to you guys.

58:10.169 --> 58:27.773
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and Mike and Mike, you not that you need permission from me or anybody, but I'm talking to myself as much I'm talking to you, but you have permission and just go go make music go enjoy enjoy what brings you life.

58:28.057 --> 58:31.785
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm right there with you in my own way.

58:32.787 --> 58:35.112
[SPEAKER_02]: Just fighting the same, fighting the same battle.

58:36.536 --> 58:37.217
[SPEAKER_01]: The doozy, huh?

58:37.999 --> 58:39.522
[SPEAKER_02]: It is good.

58:39.923 --> 58:41.847
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm not good to see you.

58:42.248 --> 58:45.475
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll talk to you soon.